Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Any comments?

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Did anyone see the shot sent into the mich dugout tonight?............ then after that the trainer standing there with a catchers mask and a glove for protection......... face it , your only 60 foot on the basepads and 43 from the pitchers mound from a live ball,,,,,,, God forbid anyone get hurt, but its a risk of the game,........ let college play their way. while their younger and in their parents care, a face mask isnt going to hurt anything except maybe a little pride......... I never saw a mask at the Gold level, but thats a different animal. let em be kids, and besides they chew their food better with all their teeth
 
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LOL BD!
You know boys baseball is worse, they play at 65 feet til they are 13. Have you seen the size of some of these boys today? The boys hit the ball harder, faster, and with great spin. Yet there is no mask on any boy in a lot of rec leagues or travel at the age where they are pretty much playing the same distance as our female 12 year olds. I seen a ball get ripped pass my 2nd baseman last year and I was so happy he got out of the way. It was hit so hard it would of only ended with one result. So not to cross the tracks, but the mask on the corners til they are old enough to decide for themselves is something I support for both boys and girls. I wont ever agree with them in the OF though. Maybe it needs to start in the rec leagues making it mandatory and making it part of the equipment issued to each team, 5 masks for every team would save how much in medical money per year as well as kids faces.
 
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It is our fault that girls need to wear mask . We got tired of watching pitcher doninate games. So we developed bats that give most all player the power to hit out of the park . That was not enough so we all buy pitching machines and practice hitting . Then pay experts for lessons . Then instruct umpires to tighten the strike zone (all levels even MLB). Still not enough lets move pitcher back so batters have more time to see pitch. To sum it up you wanted to see more offence and you got it .
Any time you want to make game safer just open up the strike zone and let pitcher dominate the batters with low scoring games. No pitches in the sweet spot of the bat .
Problem solved.
 
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These facial injuries are not just a little scarring; rub some dirt on it and get back in the game. God forbid that you have to sit in an emergency room while the doctors discuss if she is going to lose her vision or when to fit her for new teeth. Some of these injuries are not repairable; all the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't put Humpty together again.

Last night OU hit 5 HR against Washington, real batters vs a real pitcher. These girls are stronger and their techniques are better, the ball is on the pitcher before she can react regardless of technique. A defensive mask will prevent these devastating facial injuries and have no adverse effect on the game.

Why any sane adult would question a players integrity should she wear one is beyond me. I am sure that they are out there and still coaching. They will not be recruiting my dd to their loss. My dd might enter her adult life with all of her teeth, no concussion, her vision intact, and no facial reconstruction; all because of a $40 mask. Priceless
 
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If disagreements are due to another's ignorance and not yours, why the need to talk with anyone? You seem to know it all. Does the word sanctimonious mean something to you?

So**er players do not wear prophylactic knee braces despite the incidence of ACL injuries. Cheer teams do not wear neck braces despite the incidence of neck injuries (at higher rates than softball injuries). It's about the face and our DD's being pretty, not about a realistic appraisal of risk.

The problem is a statistically rare possibility of a serious injury caused by advanced technology in balls and bats and girls playing beyond their means. This is fixable. Limit certain technologies for certain levels of athletic attainment or age. Prohibit certain age groups from playing too close to the plate. By doing this, athletes develop skills slowly, with some quality assurance and can play the game without protective armor that serves to mask (sorry) poor skill development.

Regarding coaches recruiting; there are limits in resources in female athletics? this is not SEC football with unlimited funds. Hypothetically, a coach must choose one of two athletes. Both have similar skills and talents. One wears a mask, the other does not. Given your resources, you choose the one who is not dependent on a mask because it is a reasonable assumption that the athlete without a mask is a better investment of limited resources. Keep in mind that college coaches spend a huge amount of time re-training even very talented athletes at the freshman level. A mask means a greater investment in re-training an athlete who has a dependency not on their skills but on their bandaid. Choosing the athlete without a mask is a no brainer. If a parent decides to have their athlete wear a mask and they hope to have their athletic daughter play college ball, the goal should be to get the athlete to play at a level where the mask is not needed or wanted ? or give up on playing serious college ball. If they are too concerned about injury, choose another activity.


The ****** player may not wear Knee braces to prevent ACL injuries but there are programs out there that work with girls to Prevent this type of injury--and there are numerous programs engaging in this type of prevention. If you are interested there are many studies that have looked at this problem, in fact with research they are able to predict who is at higher risk. The cost associated the repair of the ACL is very expensive--why let them tear the ACL when with training the injury can be prevented?

Cheer programs can engage is safety and injury prevention programs as well--if they care about their kids then it been my experience they are looking at ways to prevent injuries.


Like I have said many times....The Emergency room and the specialty services will do their best when these kids come in with this type of injury. However, it would be our preference to PREVENT the injury. Is that what you'd consider to be sanctimonious?

I don't know it all and never claimed to....But I do know child/adolescent health and injury and I am not going to pretend otherwise because you may not agree with what I am recommending.

For example: Is it sanctimonious to try to get a child to wear a bicycle helmet when they start riding a bicycle? Is it sanctimonious to continue to try to get them to wear one after suffering a traumatic brain injury? Or, should I just say OK and not bother with trying to discuss prevention when the parents tell me they don't want their child to wear one because they feel they don't need it because this type of injury really doesn't occur that often and statistically its rare. Is it sanctimonious to apply for grants to buy helmets for the families who can't afford it? If it is, then send me the sanctimonious t-shirt and I'll wear it :D

I understand that you want the choice of wearing a facemask. At this time no one can make you wear one--So wear it or don't wear it, it still won't change my recommendations--and I am in a profession to make that type of recommendation. Are you? If so, then you can make your own professional or personal recommendations to kids and families based on your formal education, board certification and licensure.

At the end of each day it is important to me to know that I gave my best to the children and families that I treat and I talk about injury prevention. You can call it self righteous or sanctimonious. I call it caring about the kids and their families.
 
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Tim watched the Michigan game last night and that was a shot! She is lucky....
DD suffered an eye injury last year playing sokker. Retina was torn. Told any contact with the eye for 90 days could cause blindness. So she was required to wear her Mask warming up and even in the outfield or she could not play. DR. gave her goggles for sokker. So when I her all the comments about , if you wear a mask college coaches won't!!!!! I get a little ticked! Get the facts first on why they are wearing a mask! In this area, the rec teams are all mandated they wear them now. Insurance reasons. You may not like wearing a seat belt, but ask an EMT what it likes shoveling you off the road!
 
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The only masks I've seen so far in the college game are the custom made ones for protection of an earlier injury. There was a right fielder in one of last night's games wearing a transparent plastic shield on her face to prevent reinjury of a fractured facial bone.

I've even seen these used in the NBA, but I've yet to see a Rip-It or similar mask on a DI college player. I'm not saying they aren't being worn, I just haven't seen one yet. There's a lot of games coming up in the NCAA big show, so maybe we'll see one?
 
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I seem to remember a player for Northwestern maybe that wore a gameface a few years ago. May not have been that school, but definitely was a D1 super regional I saw it in. Only reason I remember it is because it's the only one I had seen. Watched a few D3 games this year and none there.
 
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The only masks I've seen so far in the college game are the custom made ones for protection of an earlier injury. There was a right fielder in one of last night's games wearing a transparent plastic shield on her face to prevent reinjury of a fractured facial bone.

I've even seen these used in the NBA, but I've yet to see a Rip-It or similar mask on a DI college player. I'm not saying they aren't being worn, I just haven't seen one yet. There's a lot of games coming up in the NCAA big show, so maybe we'll see one?

During fall exposure last year I did see one or 2 but they were either D3 or NAIA, so honestly I think you will start to see them at the higher levels shortly..... will you ever see one at a top 25 school... who knows, maybe some coach will try to protect one of his investments and it catch on... at that level I doubt it but who knows
 
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Is this really any different then facemasks on helmets. Once ASA (and the other sanctioning bodies) mandated it, college coaches couldn't use it against the players when evaluating talent and now some players continue wearing it while in college (players choice). I believe the sanctioning bodies will in the next 3-5 years rule defensive facemasks must be worn by 1B, 3B and P. JMHO
 
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Had two male umpires and one female umpire not wear chest protectors in our 6 team friendly last weekend in Dresden. The female umpire also didn't wear shin guards - and she was 100 lbs soaking wet.

I'm thinking "you are all idiots".

And as bad as it may sound and I am kinda embarrassed to admit it, it was like I was at a NASCAR race there was something inside me that want to see the car wreck.

The moral of the story, just cause you can (not wear protective gear) doesn't mean you should (not wear protective gear).
 
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i agree mIke -- I kept waiting for some severe pain to be inflicted. MD
 
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I do not have a daughter....we have about 100 of them!

Our son grew up learning to ride a bike with a helmet and after a few years he said the other kids and parents were teasing him about it, so I said OK you do not have to wear it.

After he hit the tree his friend came to the house and said Ken hit a tree and is asleep. He was air cared to UC and taken to Children's Hospital. Was in a coma for a week, partially paralyzed on the left side of his body and was on seizure medication for 5 years. He had three cerebral contusions and a post lateral fracture of the right hemisphere....I made the decision for him not to wear the helmet!

After he returned home every kid in the neighborhood wore a helmet.

From the net... http://www.sportsdoctor.com/articles/female10.html
General knowledge of people coaching girls.
Boys have historically been trained from an early age to use their body in sports activities which develop their neuromuscular systems.Girls are not exposed to this early motor learning at a young age, putting them at a distinct disadvantage when they decide to get involved in high school sports.
It is essential for girls to receive training early, to play competitively later.



Source: Physical Therapy Corner: Knee Injuries and the Female Athlete
Anatomic Differences


Females have wider hips than males, which increase the angle on the knee joint. This increases stress on the ACL, especially during landing and cutting movements.

Females also have a narrower notch in the inside of the knee and the ACL may get pinched or frayed during cutting, increasing the risk of tear.

Muscle Imbalances
In general, the quadriceps of females are stronger than their hamstrings, putting the ACL at an even higher risk. In males, the hamstrings are stronger, thus protecting the ACL.( It works like a hinge on a male and a ball joint on a female knee!)

Additionally, bio mechanical research shows that the gluteus muscles, or external rotators of the hip, fire differently in males and females. In males, the hip muscles fire a split second before landing, thus stabilizing the hips, or core. With females, the gluts' don?t fire before or after landing, so the hips rotate in, the knees buckle inward, and the ACL is stressed.

Source: David Marshal, M.D .Medical Director, Sports Medicine Program Children's Healthcare of Atlanta
Landing Patterns

Sports typically involve some degree of running, jumping, landing, cutting, acceleration and/or deceleration. Females tend to perform these tasks with more of a straight leg than males. This straight leg landing pattern does not let the muscles of the thighs and calves absorb the shock, so the stress of landing is transferred to the ligaments of the joint, like the ACL.


You see where am coming from, as I worked with boys and girls and could see the differences, however I did not understand why until I started to do my own research.


You wonder why they throw like girls or hit like girls?


Read this again please...Boys have historically been trained from an early age to use their body in sports activities which develop their neuromuscular systems.Girls are not exposed to this early motor learning at a young age, putting them at a distinct disadvantage when they decide to get involved in high school sports.
It is essential for girls to receive training early, to play competitively later.



When did your daughter start playing softball? At 9 to 12 years old for most of you and so the are already behind the power curve in my opinion.



Most of the coaches I have worked with know little when it comes to the actual differences of male, female differences because they are men in my opinion.


I have done clinics with Crystl for nine years now and you would think at least one coach or parent would have been able to demonstrate or show us how to get balanced!



It has never happened! And there are a lot of you on here we have worked with and that is data.....and then there is the throwing and you all have your excuses for not understanding until it is explained to you and then you have the light bulb moment and get it!


I know funsister and her medical profession and she has been a huge resource for us and continues to help open doors to help you.


Some of you are correct it is your choice about the face mask.


Look at the predisposed conditions that your daughters already have and especially the shoulder and ACL issues. Then look at how your team warms up and then Google Santa Monica Sports Med and the PEP program. :lmao:


In my opinion you have missed the big picture of protecting your daughters and if they play basket ball and or sokker you have really blew it.



The sokker coaches are more aware of the ACL issues than the basketball coaches has been my experience and the softball coaches for the most part have no idea of the injury rates or the prevention.


Just my opinion....so shoot me!
 
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For example: Is it sanctimonious to try to get a child to wear a bicycle helmet when they start riding a bicycle? Is it sanctimonious to continue to try to get them to wear one after suffering a traumatic brain injury? Or, should I just say OK and not bother with trying to discuss prevention when the parents tell me they don't want their child to wear one because they feel they don't need it because this type of injury really doesn't occur that often and statistically its rare. Is it sanctimonious to apply for grants to buy helmets for the families who can't afford it? If it is, then send me the sanctimonious t-shirt and I'll wear it :D

No, it isn't sanctimonious to encourage any of these precautions. It is sanctimonious, however, to assume that those who disagree with you are ignorant. Which, for the record, was the point.
 
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is it legal to use "sanctimonious" in an argument on OFC ? it's like , thats not fighting fair . Now back to your regular scheduled program........ MD
 
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For example: Is it sanctimonious to try to get a child to wear a bicycle helmet when they start riding a bicycle? Is it sanctimonious to continue to try to get them to wear one after suffering a traumatic brain injury? Or, should I just say OK and not bother with trying to discuss prevention when the parents tell me they don't want their child to wear one because they feel they don't need it because this type of injury really doesn't occur that often and statistically its rare. Is it sanctimonious to apply for grants to buy helmets for the families who can't afford it? If it is, then send me the sanctimonious t-shirt and I'll wear it :D

No, it isn't sanctimonious to encourage any of these precautions. It is sanctimonious, however, to assume that those who disagree with you are ignorant. Which, for the record, was the point.

So we all don't have to look it up (I did it for us) substitute 'holier-than-thou' for sanctimonious. And by the way, bonus points for proper spelling.
 
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I have dealt with this question many times. My dd does wear one in the circle. But not at first base. It is not that we do not fear the possibilty of injury, we do. However, my daughter feels more confident with out it at first. I have a very good friend that is a DI college coach in a major conference and she does a large amount of recruiting. Her take on this subject is, as long as the player is skillful and has a solid fundamental base then there is no problem with the mask. If wearing it allows her to play with toughness and confidence so be it because the end result is that the play gets made. However, I used to be of the mind set that a mask equals a mental weakness. With the latest and greates technology in bats and balls not to mention the overall improvement in the way athletes are trained these days it only makes sense to protect yourself from a possible life altering or life ending accident. Ten years from now when people look back at this topic they will probably scratch their heads and wonder why there was ever any doubt about masks being beneficial. And the ones who were unfortunate enough to experience the worst will probably wish that they would have bee playing with one all along. I pray that each and every girl who plays this blessed sport gets everything they desire from this game and complete their careers with out serious injury.
 
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