ASA Tournament ASA background/certifications?

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So Cal --thanks for the explanation-- From what you describe, i.e., the events with most prestige will more than likely have the best facilities, good TDs, and the best college exposure. Their cost is the same as the sanctioned events that draw the teams that didn't get into the prestige events.

I'd say the quality of the teams determine the prestige of the events. The top teams communicate among themselves and determine where they're going to play based on their criteria. Tournament organizers have to be careful they don't become complacent because they can lose their standing very quickly.

For example, the Fresno Force Classic was a major event in the spring for younger (pre-HS) top teams from all over the state. SoCal teams were disenchanted with driving 4+ hours to endure parking fees, gate fees, crappy fields, not being able to bring in food or beverages, being gouged for poor quality food and having their cars broken into on Sunday. Consequently, they bolted in mass last year when a new organization started running tournaments at a new facility in SoCal and even drew teams from NorCal. The Fresno Force Classic has become just another tournament.

 

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So Cal Dad,

Interesting comment about top teams communicating among themselves---That may be happening in Ohio--I just don't know about it. I like the thought that the top teams are content with playing each other to get better. Since some of the 16/18U events are college exposure oriented, do the events play strictly by the rules or do they allow the coaches some discretion in batting their roster /defensive substitutions/etc. Do they play to time limits?

I agree with you on awards for 16/18U---we always give special T shirts to the top finishers in our events---they are not for sale at the event and we have always found the TShirts to be well received.

thanks for sharing this info,

bob

 

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Since some of the 16/18U events are college exposure oriented, do the events play strictly by the rules or do they allow the coaches some discretion in batting their roster /defensive substitutions/etc. Do they play to time limits?

Most of the 16/18U events are pure showcases rather than tournaments. Teams play 5 pool games (no elim games) over Saturday and Sunday. They can pay extra to play additional games Friday evening. The entire game schedule is known well in advance so college coaches/scouts can devise a plan ahead of time to visit multiple sites and see all the players that interest them.

Most of the playing time goes to the uncommitted players (top teams might have 9 girls committed to D1 schools sitting on the bench). The committed players fill in here and there to maintain their skills. They don't complain about sitting on the bench because they remember other girls did it for them.

They're very relaxed about substitution rules. If a player is on the bench and a coach/scout comes to see her, they put her in and will have her bat at the first opportunity, regardless of the line up. I've heard of players batting multiple times in a row so a scout can see her.

They play to time limits to keep games, and scouts, on schedule.

 

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So Cal Dad,

thanks--if I were running a college showcase, I would certainly use the showcases in your area as a model. I appreciate all the info-- I really like the approach taken to given uncommitted players a chance to be seen. I'm sure the parents like it too.

Happy Holidays,

bob

 

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Let me clarify some points that were brought up.
I am the FAST Wizard Director first and foremost with 20 tournament teams as well as the tournament director at a number of tournaments.
Secondly, I am the District 1 ASA Commissioner which is one of the largest districts in Ohio.
I don't always agree with ASA and have directed concerns to Warren Jones more than once.
1. I do agree with ACE certification. We have required this for the past three years of our head coaches and started requiring for assistants this year.
2. I do agree with background checks. We have required this for all of our coaches for the past 3-4 years. After talking to Warren yesterday, I do understand why they insist it be with the ASA background check. Obviously there are a lot of sources to get background checks. I can't imagine that they are all thorough. The liability is on ASA so they should be able to insist it is with their investigative unit (it's actually a third party who specializes in this). I have heard that there has been law suits against ASA for this very reason. The cost of approx. $9.00 for a coach (3 coaches would cost $27.00 which is approx. $2.00 per player which every parent should be willing to pay out additional to protect their child).
3. Beckham's tournaments are ASA except for the non-sanctioned World Series, I believe.
4. Non-sanctioned tournaments can be a liability for umpires as they are not covered if they are injured. Guess who they are going after to cover medical bills, loss of income, etc.?????
5. ASA individual insurance is relatively cheap in this day of rising insurance cost and provided by a company that "typically" is well respected in paying out claims.
6. All National qualifiers are voted on by the District Commissioners without input from Warren Jones. I am not always happy with the results of the voting and have mentioned to Warren that it should be changed. I think that certain criterias should be met before anyone is allowed to bid on a tournament (conditions of fields, experience of tournament director).

I am posting this as the Director of a softball program, not as an ASA commissioner. My status as a Commissioner does give me some knowledge that most of you would not have as available to you.

I think that we already have too many sanctioning bodies in Ohio. I am ok with 2-3. Most of you already realize that everyone is in it for the $$$ to some degree. It does take the $$$ to operate an organization (trust me, I know only too well).

I would be happy to answer or clarify any issues or concerns. My e-mail is Fast2home@yahoo.com and phone number is 419-343-4716.

Martin Drain, Director, FAST Wizard Softball, Inc. (a non-profit organization).

 

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Martin, thanks for the info you provided. I realize this isn't your decision, but as a high school coach, and involved with two travel organizations with high school head coaches and college coaches, I feel it's absurd to require ACE and back ground checks, when our coaches are far more certified and background checks are FBI required.

Most high school coaches are overwhelmed with commitments and training now, I for one don't for see my self playing ASA events, which is sad, because there are some good local ones we play in yearly.

Maybe you can be an advocate with ASA to waive these requirements for coaches who have far superior accreditations?

also, can you clarify these "non sanctioned events"? In particular, what insurance coverage is available for teams playing in them?

 

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In non-sanctioned tournaments the teams have their insurance already in place as it good for all events, practices, etc.. so teams are indeed covered by insurance. As the person/org running the event you can buy your own site insurance. Many agents out there can provide that for you.

Umpires in a non sanctioned event ARE not covered.. unless they have what many get here in Ohio ( if they do all types of sports ) and that is called All-Sports Insurance. If you are having a non-sanctioned event, then the person or org running the event needs to get some legal waivers signed by umpires taking the liability away from the person or org running the event to be able to work the event. At least that is how I do it when I ran unsanctioned events.

As for Number 6 on the list for Martin.. ASA bidding process is not really a bidding process at all. This past January when I bidded on events, I was told that it was going to be bid on a per team kickback to ASA.. In the end, it was bidded two ways, a flat rate bid and a per team bid. So here you got two ways of bidding on a tournament.

Clermont County CVB and myself bidded on eight events. Eight of them. But, here's the fun part of ASA Ohio. You can out bid everyone else and STILL NOT get the tournament because a so-called Committee made up of the "good ole boys club" from up North makes a decision where it goes. So being the highest bidder.. doesn't win you the bid. ASA tried to appease us here in Clermont County by giving us a 14u and 16u Hall of Fame event.. an event nobody wants...LOL as it is too hard to play in the Fall based on other sports commitments by the girls in HS.

I wanted to put the event in central Ohio to make it accessable to all Ohio teams and when I bidded on it.. there was no stipulation in the bidding paperwork where the event had to be played at. None. But, it HAD to be played in Goshen.. and area of SW Ohio where the ASA events are few.

So, it was "here you can have it back" and then I was informed that if I done that, then the "committee would look down on that for future bidded events". Well, the good ole boys from the North keep it all to themselves almost every single year anyway. Probally why the SW Ohio teams play USSSA as nobody can get anything big in SW Ohio through ASA ( Dayton Metro excluded) for them to get interested in. It was so bad that this District's Comissioner had NO idea that for the past three years there was girls events being played in his OWN district as they was just bypassing him altogether.

The bidding process is a flawed process when there are two (2) types of bids (flate rate or per team basis) and when you can out bid others and still not get the tournament.

My personal thoughts is that these ASA events listed as Eastern Regional Qualifiers are useless. Absolutely useless when only a small amount EVER goes to a Regional anyway. SoCalDad has stated that most events in California are non-sanctioned events. They figured it out. ASA in California put the stipulation as only having to attend the State Tournament to go to the Western Regionals. Which is reasonable, I guess.

I mean, as an org running an event, you are sending $40.00 per team back to ASA. Secondly, you are being required to USE an ASA district scheduler at $3.00 - $5.00 per game.... so now this is getting to be a HUGE expense to an org wanting to raise money let alone the younger age groups always getting the lower skilled umpires at their age groups. These poor TD's are getting slammed in the OFC on a weekly basis about the quality of the umpires at their event when in reality that have no say so about umpires. I do feel sorry for them. They can't help it when they are not allowed to hand pick their umpires.

I think that is why I like non-sanctioned events.. I can pick my own umpires as we all know umpires can make or break your event. That's the bottom line. I've never had complaints about my umpires and it sure is fun watching college and HS umpires doing 10u ball. I love it and so do the teams at the younger ages. Lasers came down that Fall and there was no complaints about umpires.

I do feel sorry for some of these orgs that are trying to raise money and watch "chunks" of it disappear when they are doing all the hard work.

Taking these state positions gives me the opportunity to "offer" orgs running events a HUGE savings for their hard work. Global fees are $15.00 per team as standard and I can give it out for $10.00 a team ( taking away my $5.00 profit and give back to the orgs running the event as I don't want your money personally as I have NEVER been about money really). Give me $10.00 per team to satisfy the National Office and I'm a happy camper. :yahoo:I can provide sanctioned umpires to you as well if you want. I have them from all over Ohio and getting a list of more every day.

But, I do think there is a lot of older age group teams looking for non sanctioned events more and more so not to mess up their rosters during the summer. Especially in the Fall months when players and pick up players is the "norm" just to play.



Most orgs do a background check for their coaches themselves and ASA Certification is just an overkill in my opinion. It's like " You orgs don't know what is good for you so here, we'll (ASA) do it for you for this amount of dollars and make it a requirement". So Maumee, I agree with you on that point. I don't see any other National Association doing it or requiring it, does anyone else

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioquakerman

As for me, I think when you black balled me from umpiring your events because I commented on your partner in crime and how he cheated six umpires out of money last year at Saturday's "Grass Ball Tournament".


I think we just found the reason for all the animosity.
__________________

The house that Jeter built.




I just could never figure out why BOB would black-ball me for speaking out about his partner in crime cheating us umpires out of money when we stood by for eight hours waiting on the event to go off. And then do the umpiring and then when we went to get paid.. he low-balled us and teams wasn't refunded what he cheated us out of.


Word is, he (Bob) was upset about it happening to us ( which we kinda hope in reality as an association).. but because I said something about it in this forum, then he decided to black-ball me for it.. After working hard as an umpire for him for years. Couldn't figure that one out actually.


I mean, many of us umpires out of our association has worked for both Bob and Terry. Terry did many men's events over the years. I think the guys are pretty upset over the matter as an association and we shall see how upset they are come meeting time in February.


Between a combination of that happening and ASA out to grab every umpire they can in the Dayton area and definately paying more... it could be a very interesting situation this year when it comes to umpires and availability to certain TD's.


We all like Bob in reality as umpires.. even me.. but I guess it just upset me personally that Bob black-balled me.... and Bob's problem now is that he is hooked at the hip with Terry in these Beavercreek events.


Next would be the pay as no doubt it's the lowest in the State of Ohio. THE lowest and umpires are going elsewhere.. which who could blame them.


Don't get me wrong Hitter 23, I like Bob.. just confused by him and the action he took personally against me. Bob surely has to know I as well as the other umpires have not just set this issue aside. The time and place will come in our Winter meetings this year. It's been talked about all summer and Fall between the umpires of the association.


And anyone can look and see starting last year (2010), Bob didn't run all age groups in his events anymore. His events this year is the same way. Two years ago (2009) it wasn't like that. There's a reason there.

 

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SoCalDad has stated that most events in California are non-sanctioned events. They figured it out. ASA in California put the stipulation as only having to attend the State Tournament to go to the Western Regionals.

Pretty close, but I just want to clarify a couple things.

First, my posts describe the way things are done in our association, SoCal ASA, rather than the entire state. I'm not familiar enough with the other 6 associations in California (2 other state and 4 metros) to speak about the state as a whole.

One difference I know about is NorCal ASA requires their teams play in at least one pre-qualifying tournament in order to play in their championship. It doesn't seem to matter how the teams do in a tournament to pre-qualify, but it obviously means there are more ASA sanctioned tournaments up there and NorCal is forcing teams to play in at least one of them.

Second, I wouldn't say that most events are non-sanctioned in SoCal. I said most of the events played by the top teams on the main circuit are non-sanctioned, but there are also lots of sanctioned events and they are typically put on by the sanctioning body themselves rather than a third-party.

 

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"Up North"....???? Did I ever tell you how I ran the 16U and 18U States a few years back?? The year before this, the 16U State Tournament fell flat and did not happen and the 18U States had about 8 teams or less. We ran it and had 18 and 17 teams in both the first year. I bid on both the following year and only got the 18's and had 33 teams in it. The next year we didn't get either even though I had the highest bid. I think a team from "Down South" got it.
As I said, I think the system does need to be revamped.
I don't know anything about sending $40.00 per team back to ASA for an ASA tournament. I have never done it and never will. It has never been a requirement.
An ASA umpire scheduler is new to me too. I use a scheduler of my own choosing at $2.00 per game.
So, I guess maybe us "Up North" ASA guys do things different. I have not missed an Ohio ASA meeting in 5 years or so(since before Warren Jones) and what Quakerman has mentioned is mostly foreign to me. I don't believe I have seen him at a meeting either.
I still like the ACE certification. Just because a coach is a "high school" coach does not make him superior and above needing this. I know quite a few that would benefit greatly from the certification if they utilized it.
We also have a alot of high school coaches and I would not think of waiving it for any of them.
Just my humble opinion.....
Martin

 

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I still like the ACE certification. Just because a coach is a "high school" coach does not make him superior and above needing this. I know quite a few that would benefit greatly from the certification if they utilized it.
We also have a alot of high school coaches and I would not think of waiving it for any of them.
Just my humble opinion.....
Martin

For the sake of argument, as I have no idea what is required in "ACE" certification, let's just look at the background check. Teachers and high school coaches are required to have a BCI check at the state level and now one from the FBI. Are we saying that is not good enough?

 

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Why such a big deal over a few dollars ??????????????????

 

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Again, I reiterate we realize this wasn't your decision, but to us it's a "money making" "CYA" for ASA. Our entire organization is FBI/BCI back ground checked [highest level available] CPR certified, Ohio Pupil Activity Permit required, Sports Med and now OHSSAA Blended course required. I highly doubt ACE certification is as comprehensive as that. Our Thunder and Magic organizations will attempt to play as much USSSA and NSA as possible to express our displeasure in a democratic fashion

"Up North"....???? Did I ever tell you how I ran the 16U and 18U States a few years back?? The year before this, the 16U State Tournament fell flat and did not happen and the 18U States had about 8 teams or less. We ran it and had 18 and 17 teams in both the first year. I bid on both the following year and only got the 18's and had 33 teams in it. The next year we didn't get either even though I had the highest bid. I think a team from "Down South" got it.
As I said, I think the system does need to be revamped.
I don't know anything about sending $40.00 per team back to ASA for an ASA tournament. I have never done it and never will. It has never been a requirement.
An ASA umpire scheduler is new to me too. I use a scheduler of my own choosing at $2.00 per game.
So, I guess maybe us "Up North" ASA guys do things different. I have not missed an Ohio ASA meeting in 5 years or so(since before Warren Jones) and what Quakerman has mentioned is mostly foreign to me. I don't believe I have seen him at a meeting either.
I still like the ACE certification. Just because a coach is a "high school" coach does not make him superior and above needing this. I know quite a few that would benefit greatly from the certification if they utilized it.
We also have a alot of high school coaches and I would not think of waiving it for any of them.
Just my humble opinion.....
Martin

 

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if the "few dollars" [and it's a lot more then a few dollars if you do the math for one tournament alone] was going to a worthwhile cause, such as youth athletics that would be one thing. But when it goes to Profit a sanctioning body, and to help prevent lawsuits for them, I doubt many parents will be happy there fees are escalating in a time of deep economic status. Why don't NSA and USSSA require these?

Why such a big deal over a few dollars ??????????????????

 

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It all adds up 12 Teams x $$$$= ??????

 

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You want to play the best its going to cost you $25 bucks and a background check. Just consider it another cost for coaches for the opportunity to coach. Mountain meet mole hill.

 

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how do you consider any one league or tournament "the best" many community teams that would have to do this, only play in spring/summer/fall leagues. and it totals to a lot more then 25.00

You want to play the best its going to cost you $25 bucks and a background check. Just consider it another cost for coaches for the opportunity to coach. Mountain meet mole hill.

 

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Don't think $25 per team will do much to your fee's. Also you talk like profit is a bad word. This country is based on that system. Not sure some of you don't have a ulterior motive. ??????????
JMHO

 

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Can't speak for the USSSA, but the NSA tends to leave items considered to be "team business" alone. The idea of background checks for coaching staff while it would appear to be an excellent idea, is something that the team organization themselves should be wanting to do as a precaution.

Background checks for officials are something that gets talked about in FP forums at the convention every year, but is still in the process of discussion. NSA wants to make sure they do not run afoul of someones civil liberties without getting input from their legal counsel first.

Myself, I would object to it. And it is not because I have something to hide nor fear what would be found. Because of my career choice, I had to go thru the SEC Series 6 broker-licensing test and background procedures to maintain my job three years ago. I had to be fingerprinted, credit-checked, and background checked and also have to report any outside activities like coaching and running softball tournaments, etc. I did not like the fact that I had to give up my fingerprints at all and I feel I have nothing to hide.

My biggest gripe is at what point do I have privacy anymore especially in today's world?

Why don't NSA and USSSA require these?

 

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Don't think $25 per team will do much to your fee's. Also you talk like profit is a bad word. This country is based on that system. Not sure some of you don't have a ulterior motive. ??????????
JMHO

How's that system working for ya??