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Where's Bill Cosby when you need him....
Be careful what you asked for: softball is becoming an elitist and an individual sport
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Any type of travel team that utilizes any showcase format to get their players seen is the type of softball I am referring . There are many teams in Ohio that travel to Music City, Colorado, Pennsbury, New Jersey Showcase, Rising Stars, and some type of National tournament. Qualifiers for PGF,or any of the Showcases sponsored from here to there. I would say I am not talking directly about the Rec or Community softball - but indirectly I am speaking about them - if there are kids playing in those programs who choose too because they cannot afford to pay the prices for a travel team of the above mentioned. I am not talking about the kid who WANTS to play REC BAll - let's get that straight. These events are costly - costly to play on a team that gets into these tournaments; costly to stay on top of your game to compete at a showcase level; costly to travel to all the events, especially when the tournaments begin on a Tuesday or Wednesday, or a weeklong National. My "concern or caution" or how ever you read my opinion, is how much are you willing to pay? How much time are your willing to take off of your jobs to see your kids play? See the comparison I am drawing to the gymnast who travels around the country with her club, etc. etc. This is what you do, this is what you are willing to do to be seen by college coaches - and the kids that can't afford it because it isn't like it used to be - and please do not say that it has always been this way - those kids are now excluded from a sport that was a sister to the national pastime because they cannot afford it. Elitism becomes the catchphrase because "Susie can play for the Beverly Bandits because she can afford it, but Marie stays in small town and plays in her rec league because that is what they can afford. Remember going to Best of the Best, ASA States or Regionals, Compuware as a major trip, Stingrays, GAPs, Loudonville - and still good enough not to have to go to a showcase. I'm not damning the kids that can do everything, but this is the evolution that is beginning to be close to a years college tuition for a summer, fall, winter clinic, private instruction type of year - and it wasn't like that back in the day.
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Parenting is defined by doing what we can. If someone wants their child to travel with Beverly bandits and sacrifice certain aspects of their livelihood it doesn't make them 'Elitist'. Sowing their kids dreams can be achieved through hard work and sacrifices doesn't make hem 'Elitist'. Not every parent gets to travel with their kids, WHY? They are sacrificing so their kids can fulfill their dreams.
I believe more kids play in BOB, ASA States, Compuware and Loudenville and they are happy with it. Also, these kids playing in these tournaments gets the chance to play at next level if they choose. At least this is what I was told by my servant.
'Elitist'
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"Susie can play for the Beverly Bandits because she can afford it" or because she isn't GOOD enough? You sound very angry about something, just don't know not exactly why. I'm guessing instead of trying to bring the bottom to the top you would like to see the top be forced to the bottom all for "equality" am I close?
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Work for a hotel chain and one of those costs get reduced......have your spouse work for an airline you cut that cost too...I get six weeks vacation a year so that's actually a problem because there's always something going on at work. We call it PTO or pretend time off..... I've done multitude of conf. Calls from field parking lots.... You figure it out if you want to, no matter what economic status. We used to let less fortunate ones stay with us during many trips whose parents couldn't do it.
again, if someone wants it, they figure it out. If one is doing it for the Goden Ring of a scholarship, forget it....only a select few get that reality. The memories of it all? PRICELESS
again, if someone wants it, they figure it out. If one is doing it for the Goden Ring of a scholarship, forget it....only a select few get that reality. The memories of it all? PRICELESS
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Billy, I don't know what your problem is. My family's situation isn't top notch. I drive a beater everywhere. My house is not the Jones. Should I go on? Yet my dd has the privilege to play high level because of the orgs she's been associated with has had great fundraising campaigns. My dd loves this sport so much that she goes door to door with her fundraising efforts and because of those efforts, I had very little out of pocket expense. She even pays for her own lessons at times.
So the opportunities are there, it's whether or not the dd or family chooses to do those things. She may or may not achieve her dreams, but the hard work she is doing now is going to pay major dividends when she becomes an adult.
So the opportunities are there, it's whether or not the dd or family chooses to do those things. She may or may not achieve her dreams, but the hard work she is doing now is going to pay major dividends when she becomes an adult.
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I was wondering if you were going to chime in. I'm glad you did. Tina gets to where she's at because of her tough ex-marine dad, her work ethic, your optimism, and most of all, her talent. I remember watching both of you when she was maybe 10 knocking you backwards at that indoor facility that we know so well in Wlake. I tell you, anyone that's met Brownsfan or his DD would never consider them elitist. There is NO WAY he drives her around and sacrifices like he does just so that she might get that "free ride" to college. He does it because DD is a great kid, he's having a blast, and she just wants to play 24/7. He drives her 2 1/2 hrs to practice. He drives 4 hrs to her hitting lessons several times a year. She has been hitting the camps out of state since she was 12u. That's the face of softball today. Man, if I had his enthusiasm, I would explode.
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I kinda agree with him. You all are missing the point he's making. And yes, I have and always will support my DD in this sport we call Fastpitch softball for the last 7 years now. It's not Rocket science people..
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For those of you who keep referencing "problem", I started a discussion on my "issue" and "concerns" about the rising costs to play softball. As this thread advances in age, I should clarify that my "issue" is how it may effect the population of players who want to play the most competitive softball and play in college. It is wonderful that those of you that have chosen to respond have the financial and time commitments under control. I apologize if you don't understand the word "elitism" as I relate it to this thread - "elitism" as it relates to sport pedagogy on the topic of socioeconomic and multicultural diversity concerns in sport categorizes who or whom can compete on an equal playing field when you look at all aspects (remember title IX ) of gender, race, religion, demographics, socioeconomics). With that said, Part 1 or my "concerns" if you are ok with paying the fees for a travel organization, if you are ok with paying any additional training costs involved not covered by your general fees, if you are ok with paying the "travel service" that is required in many showcases and will become a standard for your housing, if you are ok with tournaments beginning on Friday, or Thursday, or Wednesday - and I'm not talking about nationals, great. Now, Part 2 -If you are ok with showcase games where the emphasis is not so much on the outcome of the game but on how many college coaches show up to look at a particular player - and not the entire team (in most cases), if you are ok with finding avenues for your dd instruction "if" your team cannot practice during the week together - which will probably have a cost to it unless you or your dd can train themselves - that is great. I will focus on part two - sugar coat it all you want, but the emphasis now shifts from "team" to 'individuals" if you are ok with those stated contingencies. Part 1 relates to the financial, and that becomes ambiguous and subjective - my take is it is very expensive in comparison to -pay your fees, practice, play in your tournaments - improve, compete, and if your goal is to get into college - be good enough. If your argument takes this too -"that is not enough, you have to get yourself in front of the coaches, play on these teams that can do this, play in these showcases, go to these camps or clinics, etc., etc. -BINGO- the evolution of the game as we have now let it become is adding much higher costs and much less "team practice". You who have responded and you have the answers and it is working for you, again great - but the general population has been "squeezed" in every direction and it does have an impact on extracurricular activities (pay to play in high schools?) . I have worked with a group of kids from urban, suburban, and rural settings over the past five years that more than have the athletic ability and drive to be as good as anyone, talk about sponsorships all you want - they are not there as they once were; over half these kids are from single families, some are at poverty level, some are so-called middle class - and first class leadership at home - but they cannot afford this type of softball with the financial demands. There was an opportunity to make money on this sport years back, and people are cashing in. The ASA/Junior Olympic program back in the early 1980's did a great job with keeping things affordable, but the times have changed and when that happens it is usually financial driven. If you are ok with this - fantastic!!!
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I kinda agree also...but I chose not to get tattoos all over my body so my kids can play ball.
Everything in life can be divided between 'Elitist' and average joe with this argument. JMHO
Everything in life can be divided between 'Elitist' and average joe with this argument. JMHO
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This is an old argument. Every new generation that comes along feels they have discovered something new. After 17 years in and around the sport Its easy to remember when fastpitch was truly an elitist sport dominated by Pitchers/Catchers. And at that time the dues were probably more restricting than they are now. For the simple fact players other than pitchers were in a supporting role and still had to pay dues and travel expenses. There are more kids, hense more teams hense better bargains for any and all that want to play at any level they and their families can afford.
Its all about priorities. If something is important to you you will make it happen, if not then you will make excuses why you diddnt.
Tim
Its all about priorities. If something is important to you you will make it happen, if not then you will make excuses why you diddnt.
Tim
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Now it also sounds as if you are pushing the end result, a college education for the underprivileged ones all the while trying to get it through the avenue of sports and showcases and how they are behind because of their individual economic issue. If that is what you are trying to state Billy, then maybe they should just be realistic and set their priority of what is more important, playing at that level with their dollars that they can muster, or sock it away for an education that will be something that will benefit them long term for life?
Its called priorities and we all had them and you prioritize what's really important. Because we worked our way up and had priorities, we didn't own our first home til our 12th year of being married, our kids knew what goals, priorities,respect and expectations are. That alone being passed down to each of them, they in their own right have been successful in their own way as well two, had houses by the time they were 24, without a dime from us, one of them had a college education, busting her A$$ with her own goals and aspirations with the tools, two others in college on loans, we as parents gave them advice along the way on how to save and instilled a positive work ethic. The issue isn't the costs of the sports, everything costs more, gas when I started driving was 65 cents a gallon, cars were 8k, houses 130k I made five bucks an hour then fixing air conditioners with a vocational high school experience. My dad was a daytime truck driver who supported 8 kids. We didn't play little league because my Mom didn't drive. I started playing when one coach saw me and asked me why I didn't play, he drove me to practices and games when my parents scrimped to allow that. ever eat stewed chopped meat, Bluefish? Beans and franks?.. Our parents ingrained priorities, Respect, Work Ethic into us and that has all gone by the wayside with today's youth especially inner city. It's a bigger issue than do they have money to play.......
the real issue is the home environment of the inner city and the non parenting regardless of no dad in the picture or whatever... Blah blah blah, You want a job pull up your pants or I'll staple them to your a$$, the things that most inner city think are acceptable, aren't and to accept that those things as are, is just an excuse.
Its called priorities and we all had them and you prioritize what's really important. Because we worked our way up and had priorities, we didn't own our first home til our 12th year of being married, our kids knew what goals, priorities,respect and expectations are. That alone being passed down to each of them, they in their own right have been successful in their own way as well two, had houses by the time they were 24, without a dime from us, one of them had a college education, busting her A$$ with her own goals and aspirations with the tools, two others in college on loans, we as parents gave them advice along the way on how to save and instilled a positive work ethic. The issue isn't the costs of the sports, everything costs more, gas when I started driving was 65 cents a gallon, cars were 8k, houses 130k I made five bucks an hour then fixing air conditioners with a vocational high school experience. My dad was a daytime truck driver who supported 8 kids. We didn't play little league because my Mom didn't drive. I started playing when one coach saw me and asked me why I didn't play, he drove me to practices and games when my parents scrimped to allow that. ever eat stewed chopped meat, Bluefish? Beans and franks?.. Our parents ingrained priorities, Respect, Work Ethic into us and that has all gone by the wayside with today's youth especially inner city. It's a bigger issue than do they have money to play.......
the real issue is the home environment of the inner city and the non parenting regardless of no dad in the picture or whatever... Blah blah blah, You want a job pull up your pants or I'll staple them to your a$$, the things that most inner city think are acceptable, aren't and to accept that those things as are, is just an excuse.
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Elitist? I disagree. I returned from PGF Nationals yesterday with my daughter and although I don't know and don't care to know other team members financial situation I don't believe Elitist would describe the families. Some parents weren't there, some kids roomed with others, and it certainly seemed like parents were making sacrifices so they could give their daughters a chance to chase her dream of playing at the highest level. I do agree that expenses are rising, but families have many options with regards to which organization best fits financially- a team doesn't need to play in every showcase just because the organization is invited. Expenses are increasing and I don't think anyone can argue against that.
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Kudos to you hilliarddad for all you have done. No one here is looking for a handout and the average family can struggle with the expenses. Your priority was softball as these others who reply.
Along...People are not understanding I never said the families who do this are rich or elitist, the sport has taken that label when the costs have risen to make it difficult and a financial strain for the average family. It sounds as if everyone is ok with the cost involved and will continue to do so as long as they can afford it - if you have that choice do it. Boulder I've been around Softball in Ohio since the transition from slow pitch and it is much worse now - itemize a budget for one of your typical club players for fall and summer with your winter program. It gets expensive
Now go back to my original post and read what context of elitism I am speaking about - socioeconomic and multicultural influences as they relate to sport and sport pedagogy in comparison to other sports- never a word that the family was wealthy lengths a family goes thru to make it happen.
Along...People are not understanding I never said the families who do this are rich or elitist, the sport has taken that label when the costs have risen to make it difficult and a financial strain for the average family. It sounds as if everyone is ok with the cost involved and will continue to do so as long as they can afford it - if you have that choice do it. Boulder I've been around Softball in Ohio since the transition from slow pitch and it is much worse now - itemize a budget for one of your typical club players for fall and summer with your winter program. It gets expensive
Now go back to my original post and read what context of elitism I am speaking about - socioeconomic and multicultural influences as they relate to sport and sport pedagogy in comparison to other sports- never a word that the family was wealthy lengths a family goes thru to make it happen.
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1st rule of my parents when we came to America. Dad worked 16 hour shifts for how many years? I don't remember... But because of our socioeconomic status we didn't participate on any travel leagues rather our focus was on education since it was best way to succeed. So when my kids participate in travel league there is a firm foundation.
If their status can't Afford travel league their priorities should be education so their future generation can participate in whatever they wish. No matter how good kids are in softball without grades it is a waste of time.
Inner city children with good grades and athleticism will succeed with or without travel league because they will have more chances for assistance.
If their status can't Afford travel league their priorities should be education so their future generation can participate in whatever they wish. No matter how good kids are in softball without grades it is a waste of time.
Inner city children with good grades and athleticism will succeed with or without travel league because they will have more chances for assistance.
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I'm confident Karl Marx and Mao Zedong agree with you on the social oppression in softball.....
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I honestly do not mean to offend, but with all due respect, your “civil right” to start a thread is simply a rant that makes little sense. Initially, trying to relate “elitism, individualism, and free enterprise” to softball was going to be a challenge, but then I read … "elitism" as it relates to sport pedagogy on the topic of socioeconomic and multicultural diversity concerns in sport categorizes who or whom can compete on an equal playing field when you look at all aspects (remember title IX ) of gender, race, religion, demographics, socioeconomics)...
… WHAT?! Suddenly, the “issue and concern” at hand has become so complex that there are maybe 2 PhDs out there who could actually tie all of those loose ideas together. Since I am definitely not one of them (and it would appear the author might not be the other) let me just say this:
Many of us encourage our children to participate in softball because in so many ways it parallels real life. As in real life, anytime there is anything worth doing people tend to want to improve it and be a part of it. As more people become interested in being a part of that process, they tend to invest more of their time/money/effort into it. PGF, batting coaches, “showcase teams,” etc… these things are not evil forces; they are simply the natural progression of our sport. They offer a few possible answers to the questions, “how do I become a better player,” and “how can we make improvements in girls travel softball and recruiting.” If these things were bad ideas, market forces would tend to wash them out – perhaps that is part of ASA’s decline in popularity??? For many people that simply ask the question “where is the best place for my kid to play against the best possible competition,” the answer is more often becoming “at a PGF or college showcase tournament.” It is also becoming the answer to where your athlete is most likely to be seen by a college coach.
Finally, in regards to how much things cost and who is or isn't making money, that all just sounds petty and ignorant. Some people really are in this because they have their heart in the right place, but at the end of the day cannot commit 20 hours/week to someone else’s daughter for free (think about that next time there is temptation to criticize a “dad coach”). Also, if someone really believes that their child has a chance at a college athletic scholarship, wouldn't it be a mistake to not invest in her future? Like any investment, people are just trying to get the biggest bang for their buck. Since many awards can add up to $50,000 - $200,000 over 4 years, batting coaches/PGF/showcase tournaments actually may make financial sense to some people – better money spent than a lottery ticket! If you and your daughter are not in it for the scholarship or the top competition, then you still have many positive quality softball options available to you. Why bash the direction some of the others are taking???! It all just comes off as bitterness from a person who possibly has not kept up with the sport and why some of the changes are actually taking place.
… WHAT?! Suddenly, the “issue and concern” at hand has become so complex that there are maybe 2 PhDs out there who could actually tie all of those loose ideas together. Since I am definitely not one of them (and it would appear the author might not be the other) let me just say this:
Many of us encourage our children to participate in softball because in so many ways it parallels real life. As in real life, anytime there is anything worth doing people tend to want to improve it and be a part of it. As more people become interested in being a part of that process, they tend to invest more of their time/money/effort into it. PGF, batting coaches, “showcase teams,” etc… these things are not evil forces; they are simply the natural progression of our sport. They offer a few possible answers to the questions, “how do I become a better player,” and “how can we make improvements in girls travel softball and recruiting.” If these things were bad ideas, market forces would tend to wash them out – perhaps that is part of ASA’s decline in popularity??? For many people that simply ask the question “where is the best place for my kid to play against the best possible competition,” the answer is more often becoming “at a PGF or college showcase tournament.” It is also becoming the answer to where your athlete is most likely to be seen by a college coach.
Finally, in regards to how much things cost and who is or isn't making money, that all just sounds petty and ignorant. Some people really are in this because they have their heart in the right place, but at the end of the day cannot commit 20 hours/week to someone else’s daughter for free (think about that next time there is temptation to criticize a “dad coach”). Also, if someone really believes that their child has a chance at a college athletic scholarship, wouldn't it be a mistake to not invest in her future? Like any investment, people are just trying to get the biggest bang for their buck. Since many awards can add up to $50,000 - $200,000 over 4 years, batting coaches/PGF/showcase tournaments actually may make financial sense to some people – better money spent than a lottery ticket! If you and your daughter are not in it for the scholarship or the top competition, then you still have many positive quality softball options available to you. Why bash the direction some of the others are taking???! It all just comes off as bitterness from a person who possibly has not kept up with the sport and why some of the changes are actually taking place.
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I miss weather we should post scores or not.
should our kids wear facemask?
official or unofficial team?
is FAST nationals really nationals?
should our kids wear facemask?
official or unofficial team?
is FAST nationals really nationals?
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Tjsmize2
First of all to call me out on a rant makes no sense when I'm stating opinion on a forum - which is what forums are used for
Then to say you doubt if I have a qualification when you do not know me again seems like you are taking it or attacking me personally which is out of line
The only thing I will say about my self is my last tour of duty was in Burma and you by no means have the knowledge or the right to say anything about my intentions or what my perception of "the real world" is or is not. I have seen and experienced quite enough.... so no need for me to go any further with that subject...but please do not try to analyze my intentions.
You seemed to be sold on everything and ok with it so good for you. I still believe the direction is not for the good of the game or with the kids best interest when the profit margins increase and the time spent on those very things you discussed which relate to hard work and character building decrease and become a thing of the past.
First of all to call me out on a rant makes no sense when I'm stating opinion on a forum - which is what forums are used for
Then to say you doubt if I have a qualification when you do not know me again seems like you are taking it or attacking me personally which is out of line
The only thing I will say about my self is my last tour of duty was in Burma and you by no means have the knowledge or the right to say anything about my intentions or what my perception of "the real world" is or is not. I have seen and experienced quite enough.... so no need for me to go any further with that subject...but please do not try to analyze my intentions.
You seemed to be sold on everything and ok with it so good for you. I still believe the direction is not for the good of the game or with the kids best interest when the profit margins increase and the time spent on those very things you discussed which relate to hard work and character building decrease and become a thing of the past.
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I agree with that 110% when the girls are 16u and 18u for most of the teams in Ohio.