Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Chanting at the pitcher legal or not?

[default]

Ted was reviewing the ASA rule book last night in preparation for the upcoming season and he was delighted to find that in Championship play fans and teams may not use noisemakers. ASA Qualifiers meet the definition of Championship play. Since we are playing so many qualifiers this year, he highlighted the rule.

Did I mention that he hates noisemakers?

 

[default]

If chanting, yelling, etc. is bothering a pitcher, she had best find another hobby! A team looks up to a pitcher to be a strong leader, and a strong leader DOES NOT get frazzled when things aren't going her way.

Part of learning the pitching craft is learning to deal with adversity, which includes, but is not limited to: rain, cold, heat, holes, tough umpires, bugs, sweat, aching muscles - AND unruly opponents/fans!

Folks need to quit looking in the rule book for something to bail their kid out when it's her responsibility to deal with it! If a kid wants to succeed as a pitcher, she needs to grow some thick skin and deal with it. Otherwise, she's in for some real disappointment down the road...

P.S. I'm going to show this thread to my DD - I'm sure she'll get a good laugh!

 

[default]

Ted was reviewing the ASA rule book last night in preparation for the upcoming season and he was delighted to find that in Championship play fans and teams may not use noisemakers. ASA Qualifiers meet the definition of Championship play. Since we are playing so many qualifiers this year, he highlighted the rule.

Did I mention that he hates noisemakers?

I HATE NOISEMAKERS AND COW BELLS!!!!! Sorry, I just had to say that. My dd always seems to do better when it is really loud and both teams are cheering and everyone is screaming, I think it fires her up a little.

 

[default]

All these little cheers are annoying as well. Coaches can't hear, umpires have the girls right in their ears at some parks.... coaches and players can't hear the umpires on fair or foul because of this noise .... play ball.. if you want to cheer.. go out for cheerleading.

in my years of coaching I have found that the girls when they cheer will pay attention to the game. The girls when not cheering are not that into they game.

Again this is as a whole and not individuals or individual teams.

I don't like yelling (Chanting) Cheering is different though. IT really does keep them in the game. They are girls after all. All of your top 20 schools in D-1 softball cheer.

 

[default]

Chanting at opposing players is bush league, umpires in dd's rec league do not allow it, only cheering for your own team permitted. Have to agree with Parma wildcats on this it does seem to keep them more focused on game.:yahoo:

 

[default]

One of the best learning experiences for my dd, was when my dd was playing 12u ball. We played the younger team in our organization and my dd was pitching. The coach of the 14u team (same org) went to the 11u dugout and got those girls just screaming and chanting and taunting my dd on the rubber! She was furious!! She pitched well, but the attitude was written all over her! After the game the 14u coach had a talk with her about keeping her head and her composure. She is a good pitcher but to be one of the best she can't let that stuff affect her!! At 12 and even still she fights that attitude. Not much gets to her anymore!! ;&

 

[default]

Noisemakers?????? I got enough **** to bring on a weekend already....

 

[default]

One of the best learning experiences for my dd, was when my dd was playing 12u ball. We played the younger team in our organization and my dd was pitching. The coach of the 14u team (same org) went to the 11u dugout and got those girls just screaming and chanting and taunting my dd on the rubber! She was furious!! She pitched well, but the attitude was written all over her! After the game the 14u coach had a talk with her about keeping her head and her composure. She is a good pitcher but to be one of the best she can't let that stuff affect her!! At 12 and even still she fights that attitude. Not much gets to her anymore!! ;&

Excellent exercise!! And no one said it's easy - BUT she'll be a better pitcher having had to learn from that experience. I call the "attitude" some pitchers get when things aren't going well "wearing it on your sleeve". Don't wear it on your sleeve for the whole world to see - NEVER let your opponent know they are getting the best of you! It's a mental exercise in discipline.

 

[default]

Not one of you have explained off the idea that the coach is trying to give instructions to the batter or the runner.

I saw a game one time where the runner on first.. batter hits the ball for a single. The noisemakers go off and cowbells ringing...LOL the runner rounds second and the coach is screaming at the top of his lungs for her to stay.. and the girl.. trying to listen through a small ear hole in her helmet... takes off for third and gets out.

Coach is yelling at her and she says to him, "I couldn't hear you". Goodbye championship as she was the tying run.

First off, the coach doesn't understand coaching or he would be using hand signals.

I felt so bad for the little girl as she was devestated... all over noise makers and cow bells being rung by the parents. Such a pity.

Instead of cheering... especially after 12u... the girls coming to the bench and getting ready to bat should be thinking about what they are doing wrong in batting.. what pitch did they hit last time and made an out. What pitches they should be looking for... instead of trying to remember the words of a cheer.

Just my opinion. If I was a coach, they'd be paying attention to the game at hand... and cheering wouldn't be a part of that game plan and shouldn't be a reason for paying attention and distracting the batter or myself as a coach trying to give out instructions.. is an absolute no- no.....

 

[default]

Would purposely timing your "cheering" to the pitchers wind up and release be considered poor sportsmanship? I have seen it a few times, never allowed it. When I have questioned it, the response is usually "your pitcher needs to toughen up"

 

[default]

Most all rule sets have some rule about taunting being unsportsmanlike. You can cheer for your own team, make comments to your own players or chant incessant non-sensical chants at the top of your lungs all day long and that's fine.

Once comments or cheers become personal, directed specifically at an opposing player, an umpire may address that. Of course, there aren't any printed guidelines that say "this" automatically equals taunting, or "that" specifically can't be chanted. It's kind of a grey area and up the the individual umpire's judgment, depending on what is being said.

Same with chants designed to disrupt the pitchers rythym as she delivers a pitch. Coordinated screams, rising in volume as the pitcher starts her wind-up, might fall in this category. Again, it's a grey area left to the umpire's discretion. And there is a rule that somewhat covers this one. If the umpire judges these actions to be an intentional effort to cause an illegal pitch, a warning is called for, then an ejection if it continues.

Personally, I try to be proactive in cases of taunting or unsporting behavior. I don't really see it happen very often at all, but if it does I will address it. The reason is that taunting can lead to animosity, animosity can lead to retaliation and retaliation can led to escalation. Best to just "nip it in the bud" before it gets to that point.

 

[default]

A couple of thoughts on this ... my DD has been pitched through junior high, high school and college now, and we have never had much issue with taunting ... maybe 2-3 times over the years (interestingly once this year at a college game from the student "fans" of the opposing team). There have been a few instances where there has been some very bush attempts to disrupt her rhythm which I personally had a problem with but which as a coach I decided to let go because I didn't want it to get into her head that it was an issue, or to have the other team think what they were doing was working. Fortunately, she learned to have a tough skin from her first pitching coach, and it has never seemed to bother her. I asked her on one occasion about it after the game, and she said that she had heard it, but she knew the best way to shut them up was to just pitch well. I have never allowed my teams to chant anything that might be considered to be derogatory to the other team, or that would be bush to destroy the other team's rhythm, and I have zero respect for any coach who allows it to happen with their team. I would expect the umpires to say something if it got out of hand, but I can't recall it ever getting to that point.

 

[default]

Not one of you have explained off the idea that the coach is trying to give instructions to the batter or the runner.

I saw a game one time where the runner on first.. batter hits the ball for a single. The noisemakers go off and cowbells ringing...LOL the runner rounds second and the coach is screaming at the top of his lungs for her to stay.. and the girl.. trying to listen through a small ear hole in her helmet... takes off for third and gets out.

Coach is yelling at her and she says to him, "I couldn't hear you". Goodbye championship as she was the tying run.

First off, the coach doesn't understand coaching or he would be using hand signals.

I felt so bad for the little girl as she was devestated... all over noise makers and cow bells being rung by the parents. Such a pity.

Instead of cheering... especially after 12u... the girls coming to the bench and getting ready to bat should be thinking about what they are doing wrong in batting.. what pitch did they hit last time and made an out. What pitches they should be looking for... instead of trying to remember the words of a cheer.

Just my opinion. If I was a coach, they'd be paying attention to the game at hand... and cheering wouldn't be a part of that game plan and shouldn't be a reason for paying attention and distracting the batter or myself as a coach trying to give out instructions.. is an absolute no- no.....

Here's my take on the highlighted points above.

You can easily teach an 8 year old basic baserunning skills and to READ BASIC HAND SIGNALS:

1) As they are running to 1st, visually find the ball, and decide whether they can make 2nd base or not. That is a skill the player needs to develop EARLY, because ONLY THEY know how fast they can run. Teach them to error on the aggressive side - no harm in getting out at 12u trying to stretch a double! Just part of the game.

2) Rounding first - visually pick up the 3rd base coach, but ALSO watch the ball/throw. Approaching and rounding 2nd, the 3rd base coach should be giving 1 of 3 signals: Windmill = continue to 3rd, Hands up = TRAFFIC COP STOP at 2nd, or NO SIGNAL = your own judgement, make it if you can. The NO SIGNAL is generally reserved for more experienced kids.

Not really rocket science. Cowbells, air horns, you name it; it doesn't even matter if a grand finale of fireworks is going off! There is NO NEED and NO REASON to give verbal signals, because your team is at a severe disadvantage in doing so. Anyone can yell anything at a game, and how is the baserunner to know which voice is her coaches?? Anyone disagree?

 

[default]

Agreed.

 

[default]

I've heard a lot of noise at games coming from the batting team's dugout. The shrieking right before the wind up can be annoying to me as a parent, but our pitchers don't even hear it. At least, that's what I've been told. I hope to never see our team doing any timed shreiking or sudden noises.

I think cheering is good for all - but taunting (what does "she ain't got no b.o.b." mean?) and shrieking are best left out of the game - and the kids should learn that by 12U. (For example - - "get that worm a helmet")

 

[default]

get that worm a helmet LOLOLOLOLOL man I miss 8 and 10u ball.

 

[default]

Bretman or anyone else- got another question for you. Had a couple teams, while on defense, slap their gloves in unison until the pitcher released the ball. Any rule on that?

 

[default]

cgs-" Ted was reviewing the ASA rule book last night in preparation for the upcoming season and he was delighted to find that in Championship play fans and teams may not use noisemakers. ASA Qualifiers meet the definition of Championship play. Since we are playing so many qualifiers this year, he highlighted the rule.

Did I mention that he hates noisemakers?"

Is that because Casey doesn't like noisemakers? Our beagle, Trudy, doesn't like them either! As soon as she hears one, she's barking and trying to get away.

 

[default]

Here's my take on the highlighted points above.

You can easily teach an 8 year old basic baserunning skills and to READ BASIC HAND SIGNALS:

1) As they are running to 1st, visually find the ball, and decide whether they can make 2nd base or not. That is a skill the player needs to develop EARLY, because ONLY THEY know how fast they can run. Teach them to error on the aggressive side - no harm in getting out at 12u trying to stretch a double! Just part of the game.

2) Rounding first - visually pick up the 3rd base coach, but ALSO watch the ball/throw. Approaching and rounding 2nd, the 3rd base coach should be giving 1 of 3 signals: Windmill = continue to 3rd, Hands up = TRAFFIC COP STOP at 2nd, or NO SIGNAL = your own judgement, make it if you can. The NO SIGNAL is generally reserved for more experienced kids.

Not really rocket science. Cowbells, air horns, you name it; it doesn't even matter if a grand finale of fireworks is going off! There is NO NEED and NO REASON to give verbal signals, because your team is at a severe disadvantage in doing so. Anyone can yell anything at a game, and how is the baserunner to know which voice is her coaches?? Anyone disagree?

I agree.. but you don't know how many coaches use nothing to the similar. Always a voice command with very little use of hands if any. I have always wondered, " Why are they the third base coach?".

There's a thread in here talking about terrible baserunning in college ballgames. Seems to me, if they learned the proper baserunning skills young... instead of the words for a cheer... they'd be better off :lmao:

 

[default]

softballheart: You are right, Casey the Wonder Dog isn't very fond of noisemakers either!