How many players on a team?

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I mean.. you have to look at the success of the REAL National teams... when they can insert FRESH players into the game.. when they hit the losers bracket.. Instead of trying to come out of the losers bracket playing with worn out girls and getting NOWHERE.

 

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Has anyone checked out the Western tournaments? Most are three day long ( Friday-through Sunday). Stamina is a key to success.. and double eliminations is where you need it.

Most events in Ohio is single elims and then people complain about Friday start times and wanting to be home by supper time on Sunday... so TD's don't play double elims.

I think orgs and individuals that run events don't do double elims because of having to start on Friday and play late on Sunday.. as there is more games and more expense.

Me, personally, I like the double elims as I really never worry about the expense.. but it seems you can't get teams to come.

 

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Just wondering what most think is the right number of players to have on a team. I saw one 16u roster with 15+ girls listed on it. In my opinion that would be too many girls. I guess it would depend on the expectations of the girls and their parents on playing time, if that could work well or not. I guess in a perfect world any coach would love to have 15 players and parents that would be content, no matter how the coach utilized the team.

"How many players on a team" is a question just like "What kind of car should I buy". It all depends... What are your goals and priorities? Are you just driving 5 miles back and forth to work, or are you pulling a horse trailer?

I've always said travel ball used to be about striving for the top: Achieving the highest college level play you are capable of. The line between travel and rec. has blurred in recent years, and with that so has the level of play and priorities. The responses to this thread reflect that. "Playing time" use to be a phrase reserved for rec. ball. Kids on travel teams were told all playing time must be earned - and the coach had the final say. That was an accepted fact, or you didn't bother trying out. It was a privilege to be on a top travel team, and your team fee ONLY guaranteed a roster spot. When DD was playing travel, 12 - 13 players seemed to be the ideal balanced number, but sometimes that still wasn't enough.

IMO, you first must determine what your team goals are, and making that VERY clear will dictate the type of players your team will attract. A "local tournament team" will not be able to keep a kid with Big-10 (or above) ambitions, just as a "Joe A Super Team" will not be attractive to a local tournament oriented family. Nowadays it's different strokes for different folks.

 

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I think the Ohio "SUPER TEAM" has to be one that carries enough players to be fresh in the loser's bracket... at a big college showcase or Nationals.

Out West or in the deep South .. you see teams who play 14u, 16u and 18u in the Spring. Those are the teams with girls playing one sport and one sport only. Most don't play HS ball if their team is not a state contender in their state. Probally why they have one girl from here and there.. players willing to put in the time and effort to be "seen" by college coaches versus playing on their HS team that is mediocre at best. That's the teams you see in the top 10 at Nationals year end and year out. A contender... because of stamina.

A team who gains stamina from playing in double elims ( can't get that stamina playing friendlies)... carrying a bigger roster... players committed to travel ball... and sees a purpose to their hard work to be seen by college coaches. They play in these events all Spring.. gaining stamina for when it counts.. at Nationals or college showcases in the Summer.

Ohio next "SUPER TEAM" will be a team of 14-15 girls... with a team concept.. that is fighting every day for their starting position and not having the attitude.. "Well, I'm here.. where am I playing at ?"

 

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And here is where you can tell the difference for those that want to play college ball and those that are rec style mentality.

You already see one parent on here talking about sitting on the bench. . .This mentality is what you are dealing with here in Ohio. You want to be successful in Nationals and in the high profile tournaments both in state and out, you better be carrying 14 to 16 players for a variety of reasons, and each has been mentioned on her except for two, injuries, and unexpected issues, i.e. illness, family issues, etc. Until you can get parents to understand that a DH or a Flex is being part of the team and is playing in the game, you going to continue to have the problamatic issues arrise.

Some of the parents in this area just don't get the big picture of what quakerman and sammy discribe on here. Use the DP/Flex to it's advantages as discribed in the rules. . .so many coaches just don't understand the rule in it's entiretly. Be honest about play time. . .everyone get's some type of play in pool, but we are playing to win in bracket. Parent's learn that there is always somebody better out there, and that being a courtesy runner, a dp, or a flex is helping the team and is part of the playing time. It may not be the exact amount you want, but it is playing time. Would you tell a college coach that a dp/flex is not playing time? If not why are you complaining all the time here?

I would love to see more of the CA, FL, TX, GA mentalty being used here, but best of luck to all that try. It is a hard road to start and needs to be paved in layers.

 

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How many girls from the entire state of Ohio go to Div. I teams each year???

Everyone on here talks like playing in these Showcase tournaments are an automatic offer for a college education.
I just saw a post where the guy claiming to finished the highest at Nationals has 4 girls heading to college. 2 are going to community colleges nearly a 1000 miles away. I'd rather save my money & put my DD into a school that has the right educational benefits for my daughter. Going to a big school to play is great - But everyone on here acts like it is a given for their DD.
I think we need to have many become more realistic. Cause very few are getting that full ride to Div. I school. Let them play the best competition possible for their level & let the chips fall as they may. I'd rather save my $$$ & send my DD to a great school that will best serve her for the future, than to worry so much about getting her to play ball into her 20's for a school that is not gonna give her the creditials for her career.......

 

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If you are playing mostly, in state tournaments 12 is plenty to have on your roster.When you go to nationals there is a lot of talent that can be picked up and taken with you. The problem lies in communication about how people will be used. If your on a college team your being "paid" to play and dont have any business bitching about how your used.At the younger ages rosters should be kept at a minimum with a clear understanding of what your priorities should be.No one gets better by sitting the bench.

 

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Until you can get parents to understand that a DH or a Flex is being part of the team and is playing in the game, you going to continue to have the problamatic issues arrise.

being a courtesy runner, a dp, or a flex is helping the team and is part of the playing time. It may not be the exact amount you want, but it is playing time. Would you tell a college coach that a dp/flex is not playing time? If not why are you complaining all the time here?

I would love to see more of the CA, FL, TX, GA mentality being used here, but best of luck to all that try. It is a hard road to start and needs to be paved in layers.

So true. We once put a line-up in for two games in a row that had a DP at the #4 offensive position (we were deep into championship play at that point) and that player quit.

 

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How many girls from the entire state of Ohio go to Div. I teams each year???

Everyone on here talks like playing in these Showcase tournaments are an automatic offer for a college education.
I just saw a post where the guy claiming to finished the highest at Nationals has 4 girls heading to college. 2 are going to community colleges nearly a 1000 miles away. I'd rather save my money & put my DD into a school that has the right educational benefits for my daughter. Going to a big school to play is great - But everyone on here acts like it is a given for their DD.
I think we need to have many become more realistic. Cause very few are getting that full ride to Div. I school. Let them play the best competition possible for their level & let the chips fall as they may. I'd rather save my $$$ & send my DD to a great school that will best serve her for the future, than to worry so much about getting her to play ball into her 20's for a school that is not gonna give her the creditials for her career.......

The highlighted statement above is a choice you must make. To some, the level of time, effort and sweat is not worth the payoff. A smart financial adviser 9 times out of 10 would advise saving your cash and putting it towards your DD's college expenses.

Our trip changed course with my DD's 12u statement: "I want to play late on Sundays" (which entailed a team change), and culminated with a college education (5 years) where she'll graduate next spring without being saddled with smothering student loan debt.

How many Ohio kids? Well, nearly every one of her college opponents had a few Ohio kids on the roster - they came from Lasers, Stingrays, Wolfpack and the like. They were the top kids she had played against in travel ball!

Just in Ohio alone, count the roster spots that open up every year. No, there aren't hundreds - but saying it's impossible to get one of these is self defeating. It's all about "How bad do you want it?" Combine that attitude with those "career credentials" (college diploma) and you'll give your DD a leg up on the competition when she starts her career search after college.

 

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If you are playing mostly, in state tournaments 12 is plenty to have on your roster.When you go to nationals there is a lot of talent that can be picked up and taken with you. The problem lies in communication about how people will be used. If your on a college team your being "paid" to play and dont have any business bitching about how your used.At the younger ages rosters should be kept at a minimum with a clear understanding of what your priorities should be.No one gets better by sitting the bench.

Again, use the dp/flex rule correctly and you see players frequently moving in and out of the game not sitting on the bench. . .And there is no way my staying in state to play will dictate the number of players on the bench, it's the quality of the tournaments and the stamina TEAMS desire to make it deep into Sunday that dictates my roster.

 

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I went to the San Jose Sting web site and the picture of the team that won it all in Moline had 13 girls. You would have to have 13 sets of great parents around here to have that many kids on a team. Let's face it, the kids are not the problem, we parents are the problem. Yes, the girls want to play but if the parents are backing the coaching staff 100 percent and telling dd's that this is the way it will be, then they girls will accept it and fill their role to the best of ability. I'm sure more harm is done on the ride home from tournaments then anything that actually happened during the games. Of course, I would never have anything bad to say.;& and I'm a coach.

 

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Way I look at it... coaches have to state that from the beginning in their tryout thread and their purpose on playing in 2011.

No team in Ohio is ever going to be an annual powerhouse until they start having more players on their roster and resting their pitchers to prepare for that next game.Pinch hitting her DP/Flex.. fine. Playing that pitcher in another position in another game after she pitched... that formula doesn't work.

You can look at the top teams in the Nationals and see it doesn't.

Ohio parent's mentality has to change for the formula to work. So, as a coach.. do you search for that parent menatlity. That is the reason I say if I was a coach.. first tryout is parents.

 

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I do have a question for some of you really in the know. If you go to a tournament to watch one of the big teams play are you watching the kid on the bench? I dont think you are.

Um, if it is one of the big teams from Cali, you can bet they will get athletic scholarship money. You are on a roster of 17 with the California Bat Busters? You are a pretty hot property, regardless of your PT in sanctioned events.

It's a chicken and egg thing: we have to establish in Ohio that teams with larger roster are in fact "elite" before we can expect players with less PT to get attention from college coaches. As Joe points out, that involves stepping to the plate and playing a BIG number of very expensive exposure tournaments. That's scary, but as a reality check, it is probably accurate.

 

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Coach has to have big kahuna's and corporate money to go with him/her. You have that... players will be lined up around the I-270 loop to play on your team....LOL

That's the bottom line.

 

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Um, if it is one of the big teams from Cali, you can bet they will get athletic scholarship money. You are on a roster of 17 with the California Bat Busters? You are a pretty hot property, regardless of your PT in sanctioned events.

It's a chicken and egg thing: we have to establish in Ohio that teams with larger roster are in fact "elite" before we can expect players with less PT to get attention from college coaches. As Joe points out, that involves stepping to the plate and playing a BIG number of very expensive exposure tournaments. That's scary, but as a reality check, it is probably accurate.

And if that BIG tournament is an "invite only".. well you got to win some big events to get the invite.... or go to the local ones in a five state area and hope for EXPOSURE.

There's the Catch 22 of it all.

 

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Q man and cgs thats a big part of the point I'm trying to make. Now the question is when do you start taking them to the big exposure tournaments? If your taking ten and twelve year old teams to nationals and big in state tournaments. If you carry fourteen girls someone is not going to develope to their full potential.At least I wouldnt think so.

 

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I would say 13u I'd start personally for college showcases.

Younger than that.. just play tournaments and have fun and improve.

13u or 14u is when the seriousness starts.. even though probally some younger aged coaches would disagree. Believe me, I've seen some of these coaches..LOL Developement is what it is all about from 13u on down and has to be priority number #1.


After that.. "Let's go hit the big shows" should be the theme in my opinion.

 

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Q man and cgs thats a big part of the point I'm trying to make. Now the question is when do you start taking them to the big exposure tournaments? If your taking ten and twelve year old teams to nationals and big in state tournaments. If you carry fourteen girls someone is not going to develope to their full potential.At least I wouldnt think so.

Playing time in games (at any age) IS NOT where kids develop, and that, IMO, is part of the "Ohio mentality" problem. "My little Susie isn't getting any playing time, so how is she supposed to get better?"

Young age (developmental) teams can have far fewer members than a 16u showcase team. If a particular 10u -12u team can develop 10 - 11 quality players at the developmental stage, by 16u they will be turning kids away.

1) PRACTICE AT HOME (ON YOUR OWN) ON BASIC FUNDAMENTALS!!!
2) Team practices are to "put it all together" - coverages, strategies etc.
3) You can't have a productive team practice without fundamentally sound players!!!
4) Playing games without steps 1 & 2 WILL expose the weaknesses (step skipping) of the team and players to anyone watching...

Game play is the proving grounds of everything the team and it's individual players have prepared for. If a kid doesn't know how to track an outfield fly, the end of season Nationals is NOT the place to learn!! Playing more games WILL NOT make up for step-skipping, and a lack of prior fundamental training and preparation.

 

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Sammy I agree with most of that philosphy. I think in game experience is huge when it comes to knowledge of the game for the girls.

 

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I think you have to practice, practice, practice at 8u to 13u. Teaching fundementals at that age is where it is at.

Honestly, if they don't have the fundementals by the end of 12u... then either a) coach is not doing his/her job or b) girls can't hang. That's the bottom line of it all to being a contender.

Parents at the younger age groups, especially being new to it all.. are having the rec menatality of "everyone should play" syndrome. Maybe they are right in some ways.. but after 13u going to 14u.. well they better know how to play the game and situations. Half the game is mental and knowing what to do in a situation.

You get better at a young age by playing AND by working at home with the DD. Fundementals are developed at a young age.

At a young age, if I was a coach.. I'm going into tournaments to win. 100% percent win... every game. If little Susie can't hit or bunt.. she's not playing and I'm going to work even harder with her to make her a better hitter and find the personal time to grab her and Dad/Mom and meet for some batting practice. ( Bring little brother to chase balls..LOL Believe you me, I have done that enough with older brothers and sisters !!!)

To get the others some playing time to improve.. get in a local league for a night or two.. Never a Monday or Thursday night though ... I want them rested on Monday and Thursday. Maybe a light practice on Thursday if you are only playing one night in a local league.

Then the usual starters in the tournaments.. well they get to ride the pine some nights in the league game. It's good for them. Builds character.. builds a team concept. Bat all of them if your local league allows and get in a double header league as well instead of the one game a night thing.

If you are not doing this with your team.. then you are not serious about playing serious ball. You are planning on playing "B". Which is fine. Just choose your goals.