It's time to quit complaining and to do something about it

El Spizo

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Yeah, I mean it's all interesting and somewhat relevant, but our team's approach is not to really address the legalities, and I'm just not a litigious person anyhow. We want to educate and we do want to address the rules, but we certainly don't want to encourage lawsuits. We'd rather things change before it either gets to that point because someone else has been critically or even fatally injured. I respect Coach Joe more than any college coach I've ever met, he's an accomplished lawyer, and he also has no issues recruiting or playing players with masks. I really wish all of the legal debate would go away ... I personally don't think that's the best way to get things changed.

Oh im not encouraging anyone sue anyone. My original point was more or less about the coach mentioned that wouldn't let girls wear the masks is putting himself/herself in multiple worlds of potential hurtlockers.

I agree with you, I really wish it wasn't a topic (lawsuits) but let's not kid ourselves here, it's a reality of the world we live in today.

There's a bit of an ironic parallel between the mask and legal discussion... A lawsuit for this is as unlikely as actually taking a line drive to the face, but if you haven't protected yourself both are going to really really hurt.
 

DougA10

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"Then all you need is damages. This doesn't need to be a physical injury. It's possible even without an event a player who regularly used a mask before becomes overwhelmed with fear without it the act of playing the game is emotional or psychologically damaging.

Believe it or not, that's actionable. It's a stretch and would place a huge burden to prove, but I wouldn't open myself up to that liability and cost of defense. Btw, No it would not meet the burden of frivolous so you'd be paying for your defense."

This is exactly what happened to my daughter, with the exception she had already been hit in the face suffering orbital fractures and multiple scars. The University brought in a new coach her sophomore year who did not allow mask's even knowing about her prior injury. The damage that was done mentally by being forced to pitch with out the mask, and the abuse she received by asking to wear the mask was horrible. It took my daughter nearly a year to recover. It also ended her desire to play the game, so she ended her career two years early.

We have spent almost the last year trying to make the University of Toledo, and the MAC conference aware of what went on but sadly we have determined no one cares or they just refuse to go on the record that their coach was out of line with her actions. They did keep her on her athletic scholarship for the fall semester of last year despite not being on the team, why do this if the coach did nothing wrong.

I can go on forever about this disaster, just a horrible ending to a pretty good career.

I wish you luck in this effort, and hope change comes from it.

However based on our experience it seems that no one really cares.
 
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DanMaz

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"Then all you need is damages. This doesn't need to be a physical injury. It's possible even without an event a player who regularly used a mask before becomes overwhelmed with fear without it the act of playing the game is emotional or psychologically damaging.

Believe it or not, that's actionable. It's a stretch and would place a huge burden to prove, but I wouldn't open myself up to that liability and cost of defense. Btw, No it would not meet the burden of frivolous so you'd be paying for your defense."

This is exactly what happened to my daughter, with the exception she had already been hit in the face suffering orbital fractures and multiple scars. The University brought in a new coach her sophomore year who did not allow mask even knowing about her prior injury. The damage that was done mentally by being forced to pitch with out the mask, and the abuse she received by asking to wear the mask was horrible. It took my daughter nearly a year to recover. It also ended her desire to play the game, so she ended her career two years early.

We have spent almost the last year trying to make the University of Toledo, and the MAC conference aware of what went on but sadly we have determined no one cares or they just refuse to go on the record that their coach was out of line with her actions. They did keep her on her athletic scholarship for the fall semester of last year despite not being on the team, why do this if the coach did nothing wrong.

I can go on forever about this disaster, just a horrible ending to a pretty good career.

I wish you luck in this effort, and hope change comes from it.

However based on our experience it seems that no really cares.

That is absolutely horrible!! i have always said and still believe that any coach that wont let a player wear a mask will not coach my DD.

DONT GIVE IN!!! KEEP PUSHING AND JOIN US ON THIS JOURNEY!
 

Fairman

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I.E. Given the league allows for these masks to be used, given these injuries do occur, given while devastating at the time, these instances are rare and generally have a good prognosis for a speedy full recovery... Would a reasonable person conclude that a coach should have gone above league guidance and mandated every player wear a mask (also given that traditionally these players do not)?


These injuries are NOT 'a good prognosis for a speedy full recovery' The three injuries that I have had first hand experience with resulted in multi surgeries and life changing outcomes. One young lady cannot focus both eyes on a single point and may in fact loose the ability to drive as she ages from the result of a ball to the face 6 years ago. The second player has undergone multiple surgeries also complicated by a weak auto-immune system and her face below her left eye is unresponsive from the surgeries for a ballot the face 10 years ago. The third girl lost three permanent lower teeth that have been replaced through the miracle of dental surgery but these teeth will not last her a lit-time and will ned to be redone periodically throughout her life. All of these would have been prevented by a fielder's mask.
 

Fairman

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My youngest daughter guested for a weekend tryout with a national showcase level team in Eastern PA. That particular coach forbid her to wear her mask when she pitched, in front of the entire team right before she went out to the mound. She was 16 and caved in to his demands. She pitched one game without it and fortunately nothing happened but that was her last game with that coach.

I am certain that there are many with stories like this.
 

El Spizo

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I.E. Given the league allows for these masks to be used, given these injuries do occur, given while devastating at the time, these instances are rare and generally have a good prognosis for a speedy full recovery... Would a reasonable person conclude that a coach should have gone above league guidance and mandated every player wear a mask (also given that traditionally these players do not)?


These injuries are NOT 'a good prognosis for a speedy full recovery' The three injuries that I have had first hand experience with resulted in multi surgeries and life changing outcomes. One young lady cannot focus both eyes on a single point and may in fact loose the ability to drive as she ages from the result of a ball to the face 6 years ago. The second player has undergone multiple surgeries also complicated by a weak auto-immune system and her face below her left eye is unresponsive from the surgeries for a ballot the face 10 years ago. The third girl lost three permanent lower teeth that have been replaced through the miracle of dental surgery but these teeth will not last her a lit-time and will ned to be redone periodically throughout her life. All of these would have been prevented by a fielder's mask.

it was an example of a case to be made. We are all aware more serious injuries do occur, keep in mind in my example that "generally" doesn't mean all.

keep in mind, a "reasonable person" does not by definition have to include having any knowledge beyond common knowledge on the subject.

Thats part of the point, a person outside of a softball circle may not know these masks exist or that these injuries occur.
 
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