It's time to quit complaining and to do something about it

[Fairman]

It is absolutely the responsibility of the sanctioning bodies to mandate rules to protect the players from unnecessary risks.

The NFHS has rules that govern batting helmets, catchers equipment, bats, etc... . These rules also cover such personal items as eye black, jewelry and uniform colors. The PIAA umpires are mandated to inspect every bat, helmet and catchers gear before every game. The coaches have to then certify that their players are properly equipped and meet all NFHS rules. The sanctioning bodies take player safety very seriously as they should.

They evaluate their rules and modify them as they see fit to improve the game and to increase its safety. Every year they come out with a new rule book for a reason. We have not been able to deaden the ball, to make the bats less hot or forbid batters from working out, in fact we like the offense that has developed over the last decade so we'll likely not do much to discourage that offensive jump.

Certainly we can educate parents as to the advantages of a fielder's mask for their dd at all levels but I think it is time to go beyond voluntary measures and truly protect these young players from these life changing preventable injuries to the face.

 

[Hilliarddad3]

There used to be an organization called "Play Hard Don't Blink" that would give out face masks for helmets to leagues just for filling out a six question card. They were an organization to prevent blindness and gave our league a few hundred masks for free. Not sure if they are still around but could be a new type of cause for them?

 

[TsDad]

Ok, I said it was my last post but I want to clarify what some have asked. I have absolutely zero opposition to defensive players wearing a face mask. I am simply saying its should be optional as it has been from the beginning.

2016 ASA Rules: Rule 3 EQUIPMENT, Section 5. Catchers Equipment, Face Mask/Guards, and Helmets.
Article D: Any defensive player or offensive player may wear a face mask.
Article E: Any defensive player or offensive player may wear a helmet at any time.

Read through the entire section. ASA does an extremely good job of putting in place safe guards to help protect our children. ASA also spells out the inherent risk and potential dangers of playing fast pitch softball.

Lets be clear, there is NO parent who wants to see their child get hurt and any manner (physically or emotionally). I still remain firm that we as parents have the last say in what's best for our child, not the sanctioning body. Yes, the sanctioning body should put in place obvious safe guards (and ASA has) but its our job as parents to take the ultimate responsibility.

ASA by rule gives you the option to protect your child which nobody has the right take away from you. Make the choice best for your child.

 

[Bullbuck]

Another possible (interim) tack is to mandate it on a tournament by tournament basis. There are lot of people interested in this issue that hold at least some sway in running various tournaments. Simply make it a tournament rule, i.e., "All girls playing pitcher and corners at all levels of the Select Superstar Extreme Elite Tournament shall wear protective face gear." I don't think that any sanctioning body rules would prevent that.

 

[coachjwb]

I won't debate it here now, but just asking for a clarification from T's dad and some others who don't want the sanctioning bodies making safety rules. Are you opposed to football sanctioning bodies having mandated helmets and shoulder pads? Are you opposed to baseball and softball sanctioning bodies having mandated batting and baserunning helmets? Are you opposed to hockey sanctioning bodies having mandated helmets/masks? If not, are your feelings different here because you think facemasks for pitchers and corners are different because there's less of a safety risk?

Again, I'm not going to debate it (at least now) ... I just want to make sure I understand the argument and logic. Thanks!

No one has answered this yet ...

 

[JoeA1010]

No one has answered this yet ...

Of course, i will answer it, lol.

I don't think anyone debates that sanctioning bodies have a right to make safety rules, it's just a matter of how far they should take them. Batting helmets, catcher masks and goalie masks are all obvious necessities. I don't think the same holds for fielder's masks.

The question could be asked of mandatory mask supporters whether they would support the mandatory wearing of every possible device to maximize safety in the game? Should heart guards be mandatory? Should we make it mandatory that all fencing is padded? It's all a matter of how far we want to take things.

 

[Pacerdad57]

Of course, i will answer it, lol.

I don't think anyone debates that sanctioning bodies have a right to make safety rules, it's just a matter of how far they should take them. Batting helmets, catcher masks and goalie masks are all obvious necessities. I don't think the same holds for fielder's masks.

The question could be asked of mandatory mask supporters whether they would support the mandatory wearing of every possible device to maximize safety in the game? Should heart guards be mandatory? Should we make it mandatory that all fencing is padded? It's all a matter of how far we want to take things.

whether or not mandatory, what would your take be on recruiting a corner or pitcher that was more comfortable wearing the mask?
would this make that player a non-recruit, or is it immaterial if they prefer to wear the mask?

 

[cobb_of_fury]

Of course, i will answer it, lol.

I don't think anyone debates that sanctioning bodies have a right to make safety rules, it's just a matter of how far they should take them. Batting helmets, catcher masks and goalie masks are all obvious necessities. I don't think the same holds for fielder's masks. .

As I mentioned before it wasn't until 1959 and Jacques Plante that Golie Masks were a "necessity" - then suddenly once they were accepted every one had them
(with the exception of ex Pittsburgh Penguin Andy Brown

- who played until 1977 and never wore one)

 

[coachjwb]

Joe ... I appreciate your post. I know from several past discussions that you have no issue with recruiting and playing players that wear a mask, but also that you are a person who doesn't like to be "over-legislated". While I recognize that pitcher/corner face and head injuries occur much less often than similar injuries would occur if there weren't football helmets or batting helmets, the issue is that the severity of the injury can be just as bad if not worse. I agree that probably everyone draws a line at different places. My line today would be drawn between these facemasks and the heartguards and fence paddings ... I am sure others would draw it in different places.

 

[Run26]

whether or not mandatory, what would your take be on recruiting a corner or pitcher that was more comfortable wearing the mask?
would this make that player a non-recruit, or is it immaterial if they prefer to wear the mask?

i have seen Joe at about 100 high level tournaments and I can assure you that he doesn't give 2 S's if the player is wearing a mask.

 

[JoeA1010]

Yes, that's true, I don't care whether they wear the masks. I have found that some girls who wear them in travel ball do not end up wearing them in college. It's not that the coaches are making them take them off, it's that the girls don't want to wear them. I don't care either way, though.

I did watch a third baseman yesterday in a high school game play about 20 feet from home plate on all batters. The other team had a couple of big right-handed hitters who can mash and it scared the crap out of me. It turned out the third baseman's mom was sitting in front of me and asked who I was there to see and all of that. Once I found out the third baseman was her daughter, I took the liberty of telling the mom that if she is going to play that close to the plate, I strongly recommend she wear a mask. Turns out her daughter was a senior and yesterday was her last game ever, so, tragedy avoided!

Frankly, the one mask I'm not a big fan of is the hitter's face mask. I think it makes it more difficult to see the pitch. These are optional in college, but most of our players wear them. I see some schools where nobody wears them and I have to assume the coaches don't allow it. I'm tempted to not allow them, but I don't really feel like dealing with the blowback. We have had two players hit foul balls off of their faces in my five years at Hillsdale; one had a mask on and was fine and the other didn't and ended up with some blood and a swollen nose for awhile.

 

[Fairman]

My oldest dd pitched the last year that batting helmet masks were optional in TB. That summer she had three players foul off a pitch into their face. Each player bled a lot and left the tournament, all received some kind of stitches at the emergency room. The next year the sanctioning bodies required the mask on batting helmets and not a single girl was injured.

When she went off to college where the mask is still optional she was pitching batting practice and once again a batter fouled off a pitch into her face, bled like crazy and flattened her nose. That week every one of the players had the coach install a face mask on their batting helmet. Batting helmet masks protect our kids.

If a coach does not allow masks as a policy then they must assume the liability/responsibility for the injury. That would be inviting a law suit that you would loose.

 

[cz fastpitch fan]

Man alive, this post has had more activity than any other.
I sense this will certainly be a topic of an upcoming call-in show. I'm sure there will be a few people who would be willing to call in to discuss this.
Love all of this discussion.
Why are we having it? Because this is an important topic!

 

[JoeA1010]

If a coach does not allow masks as a policy then they must assume the liability/responsibility for the injury. That would be inviting a law suit that you would loose.

No, a college coach and the school would actually win that lawsuit. No court in the country is going to hold a coach liable for not allowing something that the sanctioning body does not feel should be mandatory for safety.

 

[Fairman]

Are you willing to bet your house on that?

I'm not.

 

[crystlemc]

JoeA was an attorney is his former life, so I'm guessing he would bet on it...

 

[backstop09]

No, a college coach and the school would actually win that lawsuit. No court in the country is going to hold a coach liable for not allowing something that the sanctioning body does not feel should be mandatory for safety.

This line of reasoning makes no sense. The coach takes an available safety tool away from a player and you think a defense of "but the sanctioning body doesn't require it" is going to get the coach and school off the hook when that player suffers a preventable injury??? No way. Using a different scenario as an example - let's say I'm driving a company car that has passenger side air bags. My employer has a rule that passenger side air bags are not allowed to be used. We are in an accident, the passenger is injured and the injuries could have been prevented by the air bag that the employer didn't allow to be used. Following your logic, all my employer has to do is march into court and tell the jury "you have to find the company not guilty because the sanctioning body (government) doesn't require the use of the air bags". Good luck with that.

 

[DanMaz]

maybe if it was batting gloves (that keep hands / fingers from getting blisters) that the coach didnt allow his players to wear... blisters compared to faces being blown up by a softball that can be eliminated by a "choice" made by players wanting to wear it and the coach saying no you cant wear it or... Is this the same thing but just on a smaller scale?

 

[Softball Dad]

I have emailed the OHSAA and NFHS two years ago. I got the generic reply that safety is important and they will continue to look at the rules but right now nothing is changing. I feel it will take a serious injury or death before anything is done. I hope one of the mask manufactures will take up the cause and get their equipment certified like batting helmets and bats. The certification will make it easier for rules to mandate masks.

 

[Fairman]

Did anyone see the Pirate's Vogelsong get hit in the face while batting in yesterday's game?

Here is a professional athlete not able to get out of the way with 60'-6"to work with, but we expect our daughters to do so in 43'.....

A simple batting helmet mask would have prevented that injury.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkd3dXd0FoY