Let's Talk Pitchers - Again

[SheThrowsHeat]

Recently there was a thread about where have all the pitchers gone. There were many great theories on why people believe the dropoff is happening and I agree with many of them. Some girls do not want to put in the time. Some do not have the ability to show no emotion whether putting the batter down or getting hammered. Others decide to play a different position. Some just do not progress as they get older.

Let's focus on the theory that some girls give up just because they get hammered. Many reasons come to mind why girls get hit so well but the one I want to steer the discussion towards is the coach. Take any good pitcher and her talent takes her so far. Go past that talent and her defensive support and her pitch caller are the other 66% of the equation that makes her an ok pitcher or a stud. Take the best pitcher you have seen and put her with a coach calling the wrong pitch in a given situation and she will get rocked. A good combo of pitcher, pitch caller, and D are FUN to watch.

Some will agree and some will disagree with my philosophy. So, two topics to discuss. Agree or Disagree. And, if you want, throw out the top pitch callers in your age group. Remember, just a discussion for fun here people.

I will give my opinion later.

 

[SheThrowsHeat]

Not being around Ohio softball for very long I have to say in 12u that our coach, Joe Newton does really well. I was also impressed with the pitch calling by Lasers White at Stingrays this weekend. I watched them play a couple of times including our game and they have three great pitchers.

 

[GeneralsDad]

SheThrowsHeat, You have a great coach there in Joe.

You are absolutely right that pitch calling and defense are a crucial part of the game. I love when you see middle infielders relaying pitch calls to the outfield, keeping everyone ready for the next pitch. Talent in the circle+great defense+competent coaching=late Sundays. The best pitch callers I have seen were not pitching coaches or pitchers parent. They were hitting gurus.

 

[SMc4SMc]

As the competition heats up and the game gets tight (along with the strike zone) one of the toughest in the game, the Catcher, makes a heck of a difference. Pitchers seem to need back rubs, shoulder massages, ego boasts, or quiet time to themselves. Awesome Catchers provide all that and it seems all they need is water, jerky, and a helmet slap.

*The 8U/10U shoestring valet is an added dugout luxury available on all models.*

 

[coachjwb]

Pitch-calling and strong defenses are absolutely huge difference-makers for pitchers. Of course, the pitcher should usually have the choice to shake off pitch calls she is not comfortable with, though I know a lot of youth pitchers who are uncomfortable doing that (and a few coaches who would not be happy with that either, especially if done a lot!). I will also say though that I have seen a few too many parents of below average pitchers complain about the defense and pitch-calling and want coaches to call pitches that their DD's could not effectively throw and/or were meatballs. That might explain where some of the pitchers have gone, but not the good ones ... just my opinion ...

 

[Justamom]

This made me think of something I was talking to my husband about the other day. As a spectator I cannot see what the coach is calling. So I don't know if the coach does not take advantage of the umpires 'strike' zone or if the pitcher is missing spots. What I mean are those umpires that will give the other batters box or an inch off the ground. It always seemed to me that our pitchers didn't take advantage in these situations and continued to throw in the 'normal' strike zone. The better teams always seemed to adjust well to the 'strike' zone for that given game. As someone sitting on the sidelines it's hard to know for sure if it is the pitcher adjusting or the pitch caller or maybe both. Adjusting the pitches according to calls were definite game changers in many games I watched this season.

 

[Pitch Perfect]

Absolutley agree that there is an equation of good pitching, pitch calling and catching! I saw the difference in less than a season when my daughter filled in with another team. They had an agressive, less predicatble pitch caller and made my pitcher look better than she had already.

 

[Louuuuu]

... I have seen a few too many parents of below average pitchers complain about ... pitch-calling ...

... when the pitcher's drop ball looks the same as a fastball - same goes for her curve - and rise ball - and screw.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

I agree a good Catcher - makes the world of difference, When my Daughter knows she can burry a drop and not have to worry about giving up two bases on a passed ball she has a lot more confidence.

My DD is 13 the happiest she has ever been at pitching was this past year, her first year of school ball. The coach said as long as they did a good job he would have the Catchers call location and she got to call her own pitch.

At the risk of bragging lets say her team did pretty well...

 

[0203bbmom]

A good catcher does make all the difference. A confident catcher makes a confident pitcher. DD and catcher have called their own pitches for a year now at 12U and during their first school ball season. A good pitching coach will teach both the catcher and pitcher to eye the batter....where are they swinging, standing, etc. And a good pitcher knows if the strike zone is an inch off the ground to three feet above the helmet, throw where the calls are. An okay pitcher throws their pitches. A great pitcher makes the adjustments according to batter location and umps strike zone.

 

[SheThrowsHeat]

As the competition heats up and the game gets tight (along with the strike zone) one of the toughest in the game, the Catcher, makes a heck of a difference. Pitchers seem to need back rubs, shoulder massages, ego boasts, or quiet time to themselves. Awesome Catchers provide all that and it seems all they need is water, jerky, and a helmet slap.

*The 8U/10U shoestring valet is an added dugout luxury available on all models.*

Love it.....and I am one of those prima donna pitcher's dads. LOL

 

[wvanalmsick]

The ability for the catcher to call pitches is very important. No one on the field besides the pitcher knows what pitches are working, what the "preferred" strike zone is, and the abilities of her defense. What a catcher needs help on from the coaching staff is how the batter swings. This takes a hitting coach that knows their stuff. The coach would provide signals about potential hitting weaknesses, and the catcher would take that, add in the defense, what pitches are working, and waa-laa, you get that hitter to hit the ball right where you wanted her to.

However today, the younger age group coaches do not want to take the time to teach a catcher how to analyze the why a certain pitch isn't working, or how a low, inside pitch will get a grounder to third.

How did my DD learn this? She worked hard at hitting so she knew what would happen if a hitter gets, say, a high and inside pitch, or a low and outside pitch. Add a little wiggle from the pitch and the result is predictable. She listened to those pitching coaches about why certain pitches act certain ways when she was catching for a pitcher getting lessons. And as a player, she knew how to communicate the shortcomings to the pitcher in a way that would seem to invigorate the pitcher, not tear her down, but she was also brutally honest when the coach ask how a pitcher was doing. We also had some chats but for the most part, I let the other coaches coach her. It made the ride home much more enjoyable.

My DD always called catching "The game within the game." She loved the mental challenge. It was absolutely great to sit and watch a game where the coaches had nothing to do but move the defense around when the team was in the field. No pitch calling. The girls called the game and they had fun, win or lose.

 

[coachjwb]

Louuu ... several years back, my daughter and I more or less inherited a 16U team at the last minute, and we ended up with 3 pitchers all of whom went to the same pitching coach (our first mistake). All 3 of them professed to have the same 9 pitches, at least two of which neither my daughter nor I had ever heard of. One of the pitchers was good ... she had good speed and could effectively throw 4-5 of the pitches. On the other two pitchers, there was no discernible difference between the 8 non-change up pitches that my daughter or I could see ... they all looked like fastballs and they all got slammed on. We tried to convince all 3 pitchers that while we preferred they only work on 5 pitches on their own, that they certainly were welcome to work on all 9 of them (our second mistake) but that we wanted them to warm up only 3-5 of them before games, and to let us know which ones they were throwing that day so either my daughter or the catchers knew which ones to call. For the two pitchers who were not as effective, of course it was our fault when they got rocked. That same year at tryouts, we didn't keep a pitcher who couldn't throw strikes or hit locations at the tryout to save her life, and we got lambasted when we called them to let them know because "the catcher made her look bad".

The moral of the story is, yes, pitch calling and defense can make a pitcher look better sometimes, but my experience has been that over the course of a season it's more often used as an excuse ... and that quality pitchers aren't leaving the rubber because of those reasons.

 

[FastBat]

A great catcher, will make a good pitcher, look like a stud...that's the universal difference maker at any age with pitching.

 

[LADY lOOKOUTS]

Only from experience: As a pitching coach, I teach my girls the philosophy and science behind calling a good game. The catchers job is to make the pitcher look good! I believe it is important for experienced pitchers to be in complete control of their game. If coaches do not allow, I like them to be able to call off some pitches. example: If a girl hits a triple off of an inside pitch, the pitcher should remember it, therefore if the coach calls the same pitch at her next at bat forgetting what pitch he or she called, the pitcher should not have to throw it. Three basic factors.... what pitches are working for me, what is the umpire calling and where the batter is in the box ( check her hands also) This will allow a pitcher to control her game by mixing speeds and to change plains.. Great pitchers dont throw many strikes but they sure look like strikes. Knowing what spins your putcher is throwing can determine what side of the field will typically go. Coaches can then adjust their defense accordingly!! Wow so much science involved.. I love this game. At a young age my dad quite calling my games because he was sick of me complaining on how bad he was calling them.. I learned by trial and error how to scientifically set batters up, visualizing what i was doing and where they would hit it if I hit my spot! Thanks for sucking at calling pitches dad!!!!

 

[Grammysoftball]

I believe there are pitchers that should be calling their own pitches from 14U on. Many of the ladies at this age are very aware of what is working for them on any given day, and are smart enough to know what pitch to use and when. I am all for at least giving this a try to see how well your pitcher can work on her own. Of course there are some girls that are not advanced enough to do this. If your pitcher is a gamer and understands the mental picture of the game, I say give her a shot at trying this, maybe in a pool game or for a couple innings to see if she can manage this. I also believe IF a pitcher does not like the pitch called by her coach, she should have the right to shake it off and ask for another sign. How else will they learn ? What are your thoughts on this?

 

[wow]

Don't want to go over what has already been said.. But pitch calling and defense? OF COURSE.. Great catcher.. Yep that's the one who rarely gets the credit. Catchers see everything from a whole different perspective. They see the batters hand path, base runners, pitchers spots, and frame.. All at the same time. Yes the pitcher pitches, but great catching eliminates pass balls, drop 3rd, stolen bases, plays at home, foul tips, etc... Show me kid who can go 5+ games in 10-15lbs of gear and still be lights out and I will show you the most athletic kid on the field. Then you add the element of calling pitches... Yep catchers gotta be the smartest kid on the field.

 

[go4fpsb]

If the catcher can call a good game i'm all for it. I believe at the HS level or below most don't. This is from my experience as a pitching instructor and a JV coach. An example from last school season, my pitcher and catcher decided to change the pitch I called after blowing two fastballs (yes just a plain old fastball) past the number 8 hitter. They decided to throw a change which the batter promptly drove into center, luckily it was caught but there was a conversation immediately after that inning. Someone mentioned coaches calling the same pitch to a hitter that hit that pitch in the previous at bat. The big advantage I have sitting in the dug out calling pitches is I have the chart I keep in front of me of the game with all the pitches called and results of the at bats. If the coach is going to call pitches they should be charting. I know that is obvious but I see a lot of coaches that don't.

 

[coachjwb]

To me, the ideal situation is the pitcher, catcher and pitching coach all working together to call pitches. The catcher has the best seat in the house to know what the pitcher is throwing well and not well that day, as well as to see the batter's stance, any "holes" in their swing, etc. The pitcher also obviously should have that same knowledge and knows what she is confident in, while the pitching coach (could be the head coach or who he/she has designated to work with the pitchers) is in a position to chart what's happened in the game and the opportunity to talk between innings (or during conferences) to the pitcher and catcher about what's working, who's coming up, etc.

How can this work logistically? Well, if the coach wants something, they have the first opportunity to call for it ... otherwise it should be the catcher's call if she is good at it (see below), and then of course ideally the pitcher should have the ability to shake off the call.

I agree with go4fpsb and will go so far as to say that more catchers than most think aren't the students of the game and captains on the field that they could/should be, and they are not prepared to call the game, even though their parents think they are. I have personally seen this even at the college level, and let's also remember how many coaches are calling pitches at the WCWS. There will be those who will say the coach is on an ego trip and, while that could occasionally be the case, I say that their jobs are on the line and most are going to do what they believe will put them in the best position to win games. Ideally, the coach could train the catcher to do this especially at the travel ball level, but college coaches may not have the time or priority to do this at their level.

It would be great to hear from some college coaches on this subject.