Hitting and Hitters Discussion Proper Swing for Softball

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If I have one more discussion with our community level coaches of both travel ball and school team ball concerning bat weight and proper swing I may go crazy. I'm of the opinion that girls should move to heavier and longer bats as they grow and their upper body strength permits it. I also feel that there is no difference between a softball swing and baseball swing when your target is the grassy outfield. I have reached my opinion by watching better teams then ours and better coaches than me. Yet I am constantly confronted with disagreements on this issue. The other side of the discussion is that girls should always swing the lightest bat they can find and not turn their hips on the swing, even at the varsity level. Even when we stand and watch this style fail in game situations when the girls can't clear the infield!
In reading this site I know that there are many different opinions on each topic and I also know that many of you know more about this game than I do. I DO NOT mean to pick a fight, only to see what the majority of you are doing, so yes grs your right or no grs you have no clue would be okay. This also has nothing to do with bunting or slapping. If this has been discussed in another thread please disregard and point me to it. Thanks

 

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There is absolutely NOTHING different between a great softball swing and a great baseball swing. Agree with you grs!

 

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GRS, It all depends on what the girls are comfortable with as well. How they grip the bat, weight shift, timing, high elbow or elbows down. I always say elbow down and no straight up bat. Most of those stances force a dropping of the elbow and the swing is off plane for most girls.
The reaction time of girls softball for the batter is faster than a major leaguer, so the quickness has to be there for more girls than those who can do a longer swing. There some that can, but most communities are teaching fundamentals to a large number of girls at once, so most will not be able to keep up with the bat speed needed for the longer stride / swing, thus they are taught in the masses hips for quickness. There are always those that can and will, but most cannot.

 

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If there is nothing differant why can Jenny Finch or KAT Osterman easily strike out major leaguers. jmho but trajectory of ball makes all the differance. Then there is the case of ball coming from 40 or 43 feet depending as opposed to 60 ft 6 inches. Softball swing is more compact. Many many similarities but there are some important differances. Right View Pro is what I use to make my point. Trace bat angle of both. Also how both swings get to contact position.Once there swings are almost identical. Again JMHO I am no expert only making observations and giving my viewpoint

 

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grs,

I am also a supporter of increasing bat weight as strength increases, the effects on ball travel are simple physics. Here is a site that I like to refer to when teaching mechanics of the swing. http://www.batspeed.com/mechanics.html
I cannot agree with Toby's comments about some girls never getting the batspeed with heavier bats. It all comes down to conditioning (training). If all you train for is that "Home Run" swing that is all you'll have. My DD was trained as a contact hitter, now that she is tired of having to beat out every hit she has switched to a heavier bat, engaged the hips, and makes the same contact with much better results. Her success fuels her drive to practice more thus making her even more effective. We have given away all of her large drop bats and re-tooled.

 

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my daughter used to be a "bug squisher" until being introduced to a more agressive classic baseball type swing by her hitting instructor in Cincy, not to be mentioned on here. it has made a tremendous difference, she now has more power, turns on a ball better, and can drive any pitch close to the plate whether its in the strike zone or not and to all fields. not to mention its downright pretty to watch !

 

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3dm, I never mentioned the heavier bat, if you thought that's what I meant. I meant to say some girls will never have the bat speed, unless as I agree with you, they work at it regularly.

We can't squish every girl into the same technique is all I am trying to say.

 

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Toby,

My apologies for the misunderstanding.

Doug

 

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Maybe we can't squish every girl into the same technique, but we can all decide which technique we will choose to emulate.

If you choose a style that predominately results in ground balls to the infield, might I suggest that you had better be batting from the left-side of the plate and possess sub-3.0 second speed to first base. If you have all that, you might keep your on-base percentage at a respectable level. Meanwhile, your slugging percentage will be down the tubes.

Or, you can choose a style that results in line drives to the outfield, with a resultant surge in on-base and slugging percentages.

The notion is still out there that there is a "softball swing" and a "baseball swing" that are mutually exclusive of each other. Slowly, this erroneous notion is being laid to rest.

Mike Candrea, Olympic team softball coach and current head coach at Arizona, along with Sue Enquist, UCLA coach and holder of several national championships, in their latest instructional material state that the softball swing should emulate the swing employed by the elite hitters in Major League Baseball.

The two most eminent coaches in the sport of softball are both now on record. There is not a "softball swing", only a "high level" swing and the same techniques can be used by either baseball or softball players.

I suppose that the average community-level coach knows more about hitting than do coaches Candrea and Enquist!

That Jennie Finch can sometimes strike out a major league player proves nothing. These hitters are seeing a half-dozen pitches from a distance and trajectory they are not acustomed to.

What do you suppose would happen if they were given a few more reps and a chance to get a feel for the timing and pitch path? I would image that Jennie would be getting her pretty blonde head knocked off in fairly short order!

Light bat versus heavy bat? In the bat/ball collision, Force equals Mass times Acceleration, and acceleration is the square of velocity (bat speed). A small gain in bat speed will make a larger difference in force applied to the ball than will a small increase in mass (bat weight). Any batter should be swinging the heaviest bat possible that will not cause a detriment to bat speed and control. There is a trade-off here, and the player should experiment to find what works for them.

Not turning your hips on a swing is a foolish piece of advice. The core muscles of the body, hips and torso, are what generate torque and the resulting bat speed and power.

GRS, what you have observed has been advocated by those on the cutting edge of hitting technique. Your conclusion that "there is no difference between a softball and baseball swing" is a good one!

Good luck trying to convince those that feel otherwise.

 

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Well said Bretman. To tell a girls at a varsity level not to turn their hips during a swing is unbeleivable. That's like telling a fielder not to step when she throws.

Joe

 

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I cannot add anything to what Bretman said other than take the time to go out on the internet and read for yourself the direction that is now being taken by the major college softball coaches. Then watch video of the elite hitters in softball and baseball.

Their swings are the same.

The funny part about this discussion is that when I was a kid we all tried to emulate MLB players. They were rotational for the most part. (See Ted Williams) Then the MLB players started to change to make more contact. (See Charlie Lau) So kids started to follow those hitters. Now those kids are adults and have propogated the linear method of hitting at every level. Softball has really embraced it. Kind of like pulling teeth from an alligator to get a linear coach to open their mind that there might be something else that will work too.

Now rotational is making a big comeback. No one wants to say its rotational because of the argument between the linear and rotational hitting coaches. So we will call it a MLB swing. Which is founded in rotational mechanics.

What every you want to call it. In softball the winds of change are blowing in hitting. So, will you change with them or will you be saying....

Gee Toto were not in Kansas any more...................

As your team watches balls fly to or over the fence like they were in a tornado.

It is all about choice.

Elliott.

 

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For girls it's all in the hips. Girls with upper body strength who can swing and hit like boys are the exception, not the rule. Michigan's home run specialist, Samantha Findlay is one of those extraordinary girls with incredible upper body strength but she still pivots hard at the waist to compound all that power.

 

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And for boys, it's all in the hips, too!

I think that trying for a "boy's swing" or "girl's swing" or "baseball swing" or "softball swing" is not the answer.

Rather, the focus should be "the elite swing" which, if you study video, is essentially identical for the top Olympic and NCAA softball players and Major League baseball players.

It is the swing that allows a human being- not necessarily a male or female- to impart the greatest amount of force to a pitched ball, with the shortest amount of reaction time and on a consistent basis.

The mechanics that achieve this are gender neutral.

 

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Bret and Hockey,

Yes it is about the hips, but its also about the core and spine angle and proper rotation to the ball without disconnecting the hands from the core body movement. To state that its all in the hips might imply disconnection. For if the hips fire first without the core of the body in unison then you have another example of disconnection.

Its really hard to describe in words but like Bret stated watch video of the elite hitters and see if that isnt what is happening. The quickness the elite hitters have today is because they have mastered the art of rotation and linear movement in one single motion to the ball.

Elliott.

 

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Bretman, glad to see your on board with H.C. from Cincy! Now if we can agree that it's "LInear" in the pre-swing then rotational in the actual swing (a combination of both), we will be on to something...lol.

 

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Yes, I did simplify things- just a tiny bit - to make my point about a swing being "gender neutral". To that, I plead guilty!

A good swing involves more than just the hips, but using the hips is neither a male or female technique.

By the way- who is the head coach for Cincinnati? I don't know him/her. Maybe agreeing with him/her is a good thing? Bad thing?

As for "rotational" versus "linear", when it comes to the "elite" swing, those terms become less-and-less meaningful. The terms are somewhat transient to begin with.

There are general definitions as to what a "rotational" or "linear" swing looks like, but you can ask ten different people to describe it and get ten different answers.

The problem is that there has never been a concrete, clear-cut, set-in-stone, 100% agreed upon definition of those two terms that means exactly the same thing to different people.

Generally speaking, a "linear" swing will involve the hands moving in "a line" to the ball. The hips/core may also be sliding along a straight line toward the pitcher during contact.

A "rotational" swing will involve the hands being driven in a "circular" path. The power for the swing is generated by the hips/core "revolving" around a central axis.

To say that a pre-swing motion is "linear" and the swing itself is "rotational" is a mixing of terms that seems to muddy the definitions. If I recall correctly, this is what Candrea & Enquist describe on their latest RightViewPro instructional material.

Hitters do lots of stuff "pre-swing". Some good, some bad. But the elite swing- the actual swing and not what happens before it is initiated- will generally fall under the "rotational" definition. And, using video comparison, once initiated the elite swing of both female and male batters will look, side-by-side, surprisingly identical.

 

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Good stuff brett. Most people get confused between rotational and linear, because if you swing the bat obviously you will "rotate" no matter what swing you have. "Linear" and "rotational" refer to the hand path.

La. Lafayette is taught rotational technique as taught by Epstein, and they currently have the #1, #4 and #14 HR hitters in D1.

 

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The ULL Ragin' Cajuns are a good example of a school that has focused on rotational mechanics and enjoyed great success with it.

Of course, UCLA and Arizona are two more examples of larger schools employing these mechanics. If you get a chance to catch one of their games on ESPN, fire-up the TiVo or VCR. You will have an excellent re-playable example of elite swings using rotational techniques.

One more example that we can't overlook. Mich...er...Mi...umm..(I can't even say the word!)..."that team up north" has employed rotational mechanics and uses the RightViewPro software for their hitting instruction.

I seem to recall them having a little bit of success with it last year! ;D

 

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Thanks so much for the info in all your responses! Having read the definition I guess Ive been teaching rotational, but to me it's been a traditional baseball swing. Hopefully your input will help me help our other coaches get with the program. Thanks again!

 

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Hey Bink,

Guess we will see quite a bit of this style at fariborn this weekend.


Gary