Umpire question

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Another question for the umpires in the crowd. ?Bases loaded, 2 outs, bottom of last inning. On a batted ball,
the fielder juggles the ball and throws to second - pulling the 2nd baseman off the bag. She manages to tag
the runner - but after the runner on third crosses the plate. ?Since the last out was a tag - not a force - does
the run count (tying the game)? ?Which umpire is responsible for determining if the runner on third scored
before the tag was applied?

 

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The out on the runner going to second base IS a force out. No run scores on this play because the third out IS the result of a force out.

This question comes up pretty often (along with another variation that I'll get to later).

Whether an out is a force out or not isn't determined by the fielder touching the base. It is a force out anytime the RUNNER is put out when advancing toward the next base and she was FORCED to advance by the batter becoming a batter-runner (ie: when the batter hits the ball or can advance on an uncaught third strike).

The forced runner can be put out EITHER by touching the base OR by tagging the runner before she reaches the base. Both methods satisfy the definition of a force out and no runs can score when a force is the third out of an inning.

The other force out question that comes up a lot is when a runner leaves early on a caught fly ball and the defense touches the base left, while holding the ball, before the runner tags up.

This looks like what most people consider a force out, because it involves the defense touching a base, but does not meet the force out definition. The runner who left early is not FORCED to advance on a caught fly ball.

Relating that to your play: Bases loaded, one out. Batter hits fly ball to outfield that is caught for the second out. The batter-runner is now out and no runners are FORCED to advance.

If the runner starting on second left early, the defense may touch second base with the ball to put her out. Since this runner is no longer forced to advance, even if the defense successfully retires her, runs may score on this play.

If the runner from third touches the plate BEFORE the runner who left early is retired for a third out, her run would count.

If the runner touches the plate AFTER the runner who left early is retired for a third out, the run does not count.

Questions about force outs and runners leaving early and how those affect runs scoring on a third out are some of the most common questions I see come up time-after-time.

It is the responsibility of the plate umpire to determine if any runs score on these plays- or on any play, for that matter.

 

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Another question for the umpires in the crowd. ?Bases loaded, 2 outs, bottom of last inning. On a batted ball,
the fielder juggles the ball and throws to second - pulling the 2nd baseman off the bag. She manages to tag
the runner - but after the runner on third crosses the plate. ?Since the last out was a tag - not a force - does
the run count (tying the game)? ?Which umpire is responsible for determining if the runner on third scored
before the tag was applied?

Just to make this a little more fun, if R3 reached second, over-runs the bag and is tagged going back, then if R1 crossed home before the tag, the run would count.

 

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That is a good example of the force out being removed once the forced runner reaches her advance base. I considered that possibility, since the first post isn't specific about the runner being tagged before or after touching second, but took it to mean "before".

If you think that's fun, this should be a laugh riot!

Same play, but the ball is hit to the outfield. The runner from first misses second base as she passes it.

The ball rattles around in the outfield and all four runners cross the plate.

While the offense is celebrating this "grand slam", the defense successfully appeals that the runner missed second base.

Since the appealed runner was forced to second, the third out of the inning is considered to be a force out.

No runs score!

Now, stand back and watch the fun begin... ?;D