Warning for coaches and players :(

[default]

Did anyone else catch this? Saw it on tv last night and couldn't believe it.

Was anyone, other than bretman aware of this? Terrible way to lose/win a tournament.

Local Sports

An RCTC softball coach is catching heat for pointing out to umpires that an opposing team violated the rules when teammates touched a player who was rounding the bases after a home run. What would you have done?

Touchy rule makes for touchy situation on softball field, and beyond
5/6/2009 10:33:44 AM

By Guy N. Limbeck
Post-Bulletin, Rochester MN
Rochester Community and Technical College softball coach Jean Musgjerd was just trying to help her team win. She didn't realize protesting a play at last weekend's state tournament would create such a stir.


Last Friday in an elimination game in the Minnesota College Athletic Conference state tournament, Ashly Erickson of Central Lakes appeared to hit a game-winning home run in the bottom of the seventh inning against RCTC. But while rounding third base, Erickson slapped hands with some rejoicing teammates. That touch is against the rules for "player interference/assistance" and Musgjerd protested.

"The rule is plain and I just asked for the rule to be interpreted," Musgjerd said.
The rule states that in such an instance, a warning should be given. But after the umpires met on the field, they declared Erickson was out and the run would not count. The game went into extra innings and RCTC ended up winning 4-0 in nine innings.

John Haller, the head of umpires used in the tournament, e-mailed an explanation that stated: "They (the umpires) met and interpreted the rule as an automatic out due to the walk-off situation."
Central Lakes didn't protest the ruling at the time. Musgjerd said she had seen the call made in games over the years. Bob Cross, a veteran umpire who worked some of the junior college state tournament games, said he had made the "player interference/assistance" call in a game earlier this season.

"I was just trying to do everything I could to help the (RCTC) kids," Musgjerd said.

The coach knew the touch was illegal, but she wasn't sure a warning had to be given before the out call was made.
"The warning is down much farther (in the rule book) and I wasn't aware of the warning until much later," Musgjerd said, referring to after the game. "It was left up to the umpires and they choose to go with an out.
"I've never seen it as a warning," she added. "I've seen it called an out."

While Central Lakes was eliminated with the loss, RCTC went on to finish second at the state tournament. The play might not have created much of a stir (RCTC didn't mention it in reports to the Post-Bulletin), but the Star Tribune did a story on the event Monday. In the aftermath, Musgjerd was greatly criticized during online responses at the Star Tribune Web site and later on a statewide radio network.

"I'm surprised at what it has become," Musgjerd admitted.
The coach stresses she wasn't trying to gain an illegal advantage, but was only picking up on one of the rules.

"I didn't take anything away from anybody," Musgjerd said. "I was just fighting for my kids. And the game went on for two or three more innings."

While Central Lakes was eliminated from the state tourney, the Raiders' season, like RCTC's, is not over. The two teams play in separate region events this weekend. Both will have a chance to earn a berth in the Division III national tournament, which will be held in Rochester on May 14-16.

 

[default]

Kat

great post.

This ought to get things stirred up.

Here is my opinion

Coach protested a rule and was found to be in their favor. no harm done.

 

[default]

Here's the link http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/

Click "Best Persons" in the far left column, then on the next screen click the thumbnail listed as "High fives cost team tourney".

 

[default]

So also note to 1st and 3rd base coaches... "No high fives or hand shakes congratulating players UNLESS they are on the bag and not moving forward to the next bag." If I had a dollar for every time I violated that rule, I'd be rich. haha.

 

[default]

We had this exact discussion last year on the OFC. The concensus was that an over the fence home run is a dead ball play and that the rule is not in effect at that point. I think bretman chimed in numerous time on that thread.

 

[default]

I thought it had to be more than a touch for an out to be called. I believe the runner must be assisted in some way. A homerun is not a dead ball play and the girl can be called out for passing another runner or on an appeal for missing a base and probably something else I'm not thinking of.

 

[default]

My thoughts

Is this what we want softball to come to. Coaches finding anyway to win. Have the rule book on your lap and look for those obscure (sp) rules that will help your team. I would be curious to how many hits her team had, how many runners left in scoring position, how many baserunning mistakes that might have cost them a run. If this was a hard fought game, I would have trouble bringing up a rule that probably every team in softball and baseball violates. I have seen coaches slapping a player five on a home run or after receiving a walk and nothing get called. I find this a cheap way to win a game. Just my opinion.

 

[default]

which is why you get the girls to all huddle around the plate and bombard girl after she rips one over the fence...still displays the same meaning, less rule violations

 

[default]

Don't you guys remember the girl that tore her ACL last year and fell in pain. The coaches couldn't help her in anyway to make it around the bases, but the rule book did not say that the opposing team could help. So two of the defensive players carried her around the bases for the home run score, by the way, her first in college ball. That rule is exactly why her own team couldn't help her. . .

My opinion is it is a rule whether we like it or not and we are held accountable to the rule.

 

[default]

The rule in itself is absolutely stupid. Anybody (coach or player) that respects the game doesn't even challenge in that situation. A homerun (over-the-fence) is a HOMERUN!!!!! Take your loss and call the right pitch next time.
Why have to run the bases on an over-the-fence homerun anyway? No play can be made on the batter.
We just look to complicate things.

 

[default]

buckeyefamily and THE GAME---I couldn't agree more.

And didn't it say that usually this calls for a warning first?

That coach sure didn't show much class. IMO

 

[default]

I can say with 100% confidence that I would not have made that protest, but I do applaud that coach for:

1) Knowing the rule to begin with. I see our HS 1st base coach do this all the time.
2) Having the courage to fight for her girls despite what others might think
3) Facing the criticism and not ducking the issue

These are all traits that we normally respect and hope our dd aspire to.

Think of all the obscure rules out there that as coaches you are expected to know. This coach pulled one out of a hat that allowed her players to continue to fight for two more innings to get the win.

Would you respect a team more that bent the rules to their advantage to achieve a win or maybe even cheated, or a team that simply requested that the Blue use their discretion to interprit a clear violation of a rule?!

We had a sure game winning rally killed earlier in the week due to an unreported sub. Should I be upset with the opposing coach for pointing it out or at our coach for not paying enough attention to the rule and reporting the sub? Third time this season we have been nailed for not reporting, but the first time batter was rung-up for it. Misapplication of the rule, YES! Although, we should have never had that problem.

 

[default]

My thoughts

Is this what we want softball to come to. Coaches finding anyway to win. Have the rule book on your lap and look for those obscure (sp) rules that will help your team. I would be curious to how many hits her team had, how many runners left in scoring position, how many baserunning mistakes that might have cost them a run. If this was a hard fought game, I would have trouble bringing up a rule that probably every team in softball and baseball violates. I have seen coaches slapping a player five on a home run or after receiving a walk and nothing get called. I find this a cheap way to win a game. Just my opinion.

The rule in itself is absolutely stupid. Anybody (coach or player) that respects the game doesn't even challenge in that situation. A homerun (over-the-fence) is a HOMERUN!!!!! Take your loss and call the right pitch next time.
Why have to run the bases on an over-the-fence homerun anyway? No play can be made on the batter.
We just look to complicate things.

Rules are rules. FOLLOW the rules or you can reap the repercussions.

We all try to bend the rules as much as we can.

How can either of you blame the coach for catching this infraction. I believe that i can say that either of you have benefited from a mis interpreted rule before. all of us have. And we keep our mouths shut as long as if benefits us. If it goes against us then we protest.

Step up, be a man and admit it.

 

[default]

Kat
that ought to get this board rocking

 

[default]

I think that coach did what any coach would do. Had the umpires made that call on their own you wouldn't be upset. Just because she requested an interpretation does not make her wrong. A rule is a rule. If you don't like the rule fight to get it changed. IMHO

 

[default]

3dm,
I agree about the obscure rules and the fact the coach knew the rule. THIS RULE IS NOT OBSCURE. I see high school baseball coaches all the time telling players all of the time not to touch the batter after belting a HR until the batter reaches homeplate. This was constantly mentioned 30 yrs. ago when I played little league.
An un-reported sub does not compare to a player that was being congratulated for hitting maybe their first ever over-the-fence HR. There are ways to fight for your team as a coach and player and still respect the ability and toughness of another team or player. What the coach should have done was congratulated the kid herself and maybe her team would have followed. How perfect the world might be if fans also applauded and congratulated the opposing team.
As a coach myself I hate to lose, but if i'm coaching a team playing in a world series tied 3 - 3 in the bottom of the last inning and a player hits a walk-off HR I don't care if the player gets rushed by fans before reaching 1st base, GAME OVER.
Respectfully,
THE GAME

 

[default]

I think that coach did what any coach would do. Had the umpires made that call on their own you wouldn't be upset. Just because she requested an interpretation does not make her wrong. A rule is a rule. If you don't like the rule fight to get it changed. IMHO

I actually would be a little upset if the umpire made the call without the protest from the coach. And as a coach I would not have protested the situation. The game was won by the other team. The rule is in place to keep a runner from being aided while going around bases or trying to stop. I think the rule is a good one for when runners receive assistance, but absolutely crazy for it to be interpreted in this manner. The warning is there for this instance. No assistance was received, but the team should be told they need to wait to celebrate after the runner crosses the plate

 

[default]

I think the coach did what she had to do. My dd's team lost a semi final game last Saturday on a rule violation. Her team actually won the game 6-5 in 7 innings. Unfortunately her coach had made a substitution mistake in the second inning and the other team filed a protest in the 4th inning. The substitution really didn't matter since we had a continous batting order and the player hadn't done anything defensively. The TD decided they should replay from the 4th (tied 3-3). We the lost the replay 4-3. At first I was upset but after thinking about it I decided the other coach did what she thought was right. Unfortunately neither team looked all that happy when it was over.

 

[default]

Good for that coach, that's not an obscure rule lol. I think everybody knows that rule. Not sure if I was an ump I would have made the call, probably would not have, but the coach did her job. Smart on her end.

 

[default]

I do give the coach credit for knowing the rules, and rules are rules.

But this incident still leaves a bad aftertaste. Just doesn't seem like it fits the spirit of the game.