What's the Right Call?

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Batter squares and bunts ball in fair territory. Bat is dropped and comes to rest about 1 foot inside the first baseline and about 2-3 feet up the line...on bunted ball's second bounce it contacts the bat laying on the ground...I was sure what the right right call was but not what we got. Haven't checked the rule book yet but why do that when I have the OFC...and Bretman!

 

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Batter is out NFHS 8-1-13 .... After hitting or bunting a ball, and the bat hits the ball a second time while the ball is on or over fair territory, or is on or over foul territory and in the umpire's judgment had a chance to become fair.


FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing too SLOW!

 

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Thanks Blue...it was ruled a foul ball and despite my polite inquiry with the home plate umpire...it wasn't corrected.

Also, saw another call that blew my mind. Baserunner in rundown between 3rd and Home...runners final move was to home where there was a slide and clearly out, but ball was on the ground at the end of the play. Umpire pointed to the ground and gave safe signal...but after the dust settled 3rd base coach was told she was out...???

Unfortunately, this was the theme for the ASA event in Dayton, Ohio this weekend. Coached in 8 games and only 2 were officiated competently. I know there are good ones out there and have really come to appreciate them when we get em.

 

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I witnessed the rundown play and was amazed that he changed his call back to out. I never heard what his reasoning for the change was since dd's team was playing on another field. Base officiating was pretty good but I would not want to be a pitcher with the ever changing strike zones from one ump to the next and one batter to the next.

 

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On the bunt call ...... if the bat is down and the ball hits the bat in fair territory ......fair ball . if the ball is in fair territory and the bat hits the ball .... dead ball batter is out.

 

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On the bunt call ...... if the bat is down and the ball hits the bat in fair territory ......fair ball . if the ball is in fair territory and the bat hits the ball .... dead ball batter is out.

It is not necessarily a fair ball. The umpire must determine fair or foul based on fair/foul rule.

 

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The bunt call depends on if the bat hit the ball or if the ball hit the bat.

NFHS isn't particularly clear in the rule book, but it is covered in the umpire case book. (page 48) If the batter hits the ball in fair territory and lays the bat down and then the ball subsequently hits the stationary bat, it is a live ball. Said live ball could then roll foul making it a foul ball. However, if the batter drops the bat and the bat while still moving contacts the ball in fair territiry, the ball is dead and the batter is out.

NSA Rule 7, section 6 covers this situation.

Sec. 6 The batter shall not hit a fair ball a second time with the bat in fair territory.
EFFECT: The ball is dead, the batter is out and baserunners may not advance.
EXCEPTION: If the batter is standing in the batter?s box and contact is made while the bat is in the batter?s hands, it is a foul ball even if the ball is hit a second time over fair territory.
NOTE: If the batter drops the bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpire's judgement, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the batter is not out and the ball is alive and in play.

I don't have the ASA rules, but I suspect it is the same. No doubt Bretman can expand on all this, but my feeling is it was quite possible you got the correct call.

 

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To my knowledge it all depends on whether or not the bat is moving. If the bat rolls into the ball then it is a dead ball. If the ball rolls into a stationary bat then it is a live ball. Interested to hear the final verdict though on ASA.

 

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On the first play...Rule of thumb for interference here is did the bat hit the ball or did the ball hit the bat.

If bat hit ball (over fair territory) = Interference. Dead ball, batter out, other runners return to last base touched at the time of the interference.

If bat hit ball (over foul territory) = Foul ball.

If ball hit bat (over fair territory) = No interference, live ball. The ball is neither fair nor foul at that point. It can become either fair or foul based on the usual fair/foul rules.

If ball hit bat (over foul territory) = Foul ball.

A couple of possible exceptions to the rule...If the ball hits the bat (normally not interference), but the umpire judges that the batter intentionally discarded her bat into the path of the ball to deflect it, that can be ruled as interference.

Some rule sets (for instance, high school/NFHS) also rule interference if the bat/ball contact is made over foul ground and the contact prevents the ball from becoming fair. Others (ASA for example) just automatically rule this a foul ball.

Lot's to watch for and judge on these plays before the umpire can apply the correct ruling!

On the rundown play...hard to tell what happened on that one. When an umpire makes one call (safe) then turns around and says something else (out), he probably has some explaining to do to a coach!

But just because the ball was eventually on the ground doesn't automatically mean the runner was safe. If the fielder had control of the ball during the tag, but lost it after the tag was completed, the runner would still be out.

 

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We had this bunt/bat play happen in a game a few weekends ago. Player bunted ball, dropped bat and ran. Bat was 2 feet in front of plate and spin brought ball back and contacted bat. Fair ball. When coach tried to argue for "interference" umpire imformed him bat became part of the playing field. Too bad your bunted ball was ruled foul.....

 

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eventually[/I] on the ground doesn't automatically mean the runner was safe. If the fielder had control of the ball during the tag, but lost it after the tag was completed, the runner would still be out.

Just when "is the tag completed?" I am of the opinion that there would need to be some sort of effort by the fielder (the catcher in this case) to "show me the ball" and then "voluntarily release" the ball (i.e. throw it to the pitcher for example).

 

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A tag of a runner for an out requires a combination of two things- The rule book definitions of a tag out and the umpire's judgment of the tag.

For instance, speaking ASA these rules apply:

Rule 1 (Definitions), Tag: A legal tag is the act of a defensive player...touching the runner or batter-runner with the ball while securely held in the hand or glove.

("Voluntary release" is part of the definition of "A Catch"- as in the catch of a batted fly ball- and doesn't really apply on a tag play.)

Rule 8-7-B: A runner is out...when the ball is live and while the runner is not in contact with the base, the runner is legally touched with the ball in the hand(s) of the fielder (ie: as per the definition of "a tag").

Rule 8-8-G: A runner is NOT out...when a runner off base is touched with the ball NOT securely held by a fielder.

Those are the rules that apply for a tag of a runner. The judgment the umpire has to make is that when the tag was made, did the fielder have secure possession of the ball.

If the fielder touches the runner with a securely held ball, but loses the ball AFTER the tag is made, then a valid tag has been completed and the runner is out. There is no requirement for voluntary release, or that the ball be held for any given length of time after the tag is made.

From a practcal standpoint, if the ball comes loose DURING the tag (simultaneous with the runner being touched) then it can be assumed that the fielder did not have secure possession of the ball. If she had the ball securely held, it would not have come loose, would it?

It can be a fine line between dropping the ball DURING or AFTER the tag and that is solely at the judgment of the umpire. While the rule is the rule and can't be changed, the judgment of any individual umpire might vary on any given play.