Whats up with tourney/park rules this year!!

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The ball players need more than hot dogs and shreaded chicken sandwiches to eat. Selling fresh fruit, veggies, deli sliced meats, etc. These athletes need proper fuel put into there bodies to keep them going. Yes i bring a cooler but I also have to boys that are dragged to these tourneys that save there money to spend at the concession. Touneys will make less by not allowing coolers. I will not buy t-shirts or anything from these tourneys.

 

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Sammy, you must be close enough to you that you don't have to stay in motels/hotels at Columbus tournaments. The room rate jumped $30.00 per night on a certain weekend for a certain tournament. Don't believe me - ask Doug Lenos. He had a thread on here awhile back complaining about how rates went from $99 to $129.

Preferred rooms... is already the norm at college showcase out West and definately in the South. You don't stay there.. you aren't in. And they could care less as they have teams waiting in line to get in.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. Forcing your teams to stay in preferred hotels is nothing more than an underhanded effort to make profits off the backs of folks who can ill afford higher travel expenses! In all the years of travel ball, and 4 years of out-of-town college games, NEVER ONCE did I stay in a Communist induced "preferred" hotel! The ONLY exception was during a college visit - I received a phenomenal discounted rate at a VERY nice hotel. Florida, South Carolina, New York, Michigan, Chicago - I stayed where I chose to stay! I just stayed in a King Suite last weekend - exceptionally nice for LESS THAN $100/night. Don't know where you are getting your info, but I would strongly recommend staying away from ANY tournament that chooses that route. There's better out there. Now - if you can guarantee at least 3 star hotels with a better rate than Expedia, etc. I'd say that's a good deal. But I doubt that's the case... Don't take away your customer's choice, and ability to bargain.

From what you are alluding to, you and I have very different views about what girls fastpitch softball is all about. You seem to be looking from an business/profits perspective, and I am looking from a parent/customer viewpoint. Regardless of how you crunch those numbers, there ARE organizations out there hosting ASA college showcase tournaments that DO NOT resort to those restrictive tactics. Not-for-profit and volunteer are not necessarily bad things... UNLESS you're in the market to make a buck. Many organizers manage to break even, provide an exceptional experience for the girls and get them exposure to college coaches. Those are the tournaments with the LONG wait list!

Recommend:
ASA sanctioning
No "preferred hotel" policy
No cooler policy (coolers/outside food allowed)
No gate fee

Charge enough on team entry fees to cover it all. Don't nickel and dime people - it only reinforces that profits are your focus, and you will eventually lose your customer base.

Please do not take offense, because it's nothing personal at all. Just my opinion of what girl's softball should/could be.

 

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All over the South.. the tournaments are placing "preferred motels" in their flyers. North Carolina, Georgia, Florida...

Happens here in Ohio as well. The event people make separate contracts with the motels or through the Convention and Visitors Bureau... and then they have the motels/hotels "shut off" their "Priceline, Expedia, and all the other discount people" from their rooms and targeted rooms for sale... just so softball people can't go through Orbiz, etc.. to get lower priced rooms. It's done all the time.

Motel kick backs are the norm.. not an exception to the rule for many big events... no matter where they are.

I want you to look at some southern events real close. I know of a few that do so and in the paperwork for the event... it ask what motels you are staying at. The question is asked so they can track teams to the motels... so the TD don't get screwed out of any money coming from that motel on kickbacks...LOL

College coaches are getting less and less interested in "gold teams" especially after this year's rule change in ASA. So watch these "gold events" go by the wayside in a couple of years.

As for just ASA college showcase events.... we only have to look in our own backyard and see the Akron Racers participating in "other" sanctioned events ( such as USSSA and Pony) to see that the trend of the "old guard" is getting moved over to the side.

IFA, to which I was a State Director before being fired because I wouldn't sanction a certain tournament, had the third largest national tournament in the United States last year in Texas. It was well attended by college coaches. Very well attended by the teams as well. This year , IFA has the top recruiter going to be doing siminars at the event for the parents. She wrote the book on recruiting.

 

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The problem I have is that there are getting to be too many "middle men" with their fingers in the recruiting pie. Parents need to know that they can get their daughter into college on an athletic scholarship by doing much of the legwork themselves. Playing fastpitch softball is expensive enough without padding on unneeded expenses - and "preferred" hotels, forced concessions and gate fees are unneeded expenses indeed! Or in your own words - "Kickbacks". Let the "South" do what they want - it's free enterprise. If the parents are gullible and rich enough to patronize it, more power to them. Higer price DOES NOT mean higher quality. Some of the private "recruiting camps" I've seen are literally a joke. Parents of young kids are lured into these with the thought that their daughter will have a much higher chance of getting recruited, when most of them are nothing more than a way to lighten their wallets. Unfortunately, they don't realize it until they are $500 poorer.

In my mind, Cathi Aradi "wrote the book" on college recruiting. Every parent wanting to help their daughter get into college softball should get their hands on her book "Playing Softball at the Collegiate Level". Parents need to educate themselves on how the recruiting process REALLY works. Just like most things that are worthwhile, you get out of it what you put in.

If not for the volunteers in this sport, it would be far too expensive for most families to afford. The volunteers are the glue that keeps it all together. Most of them work for nothing more than to see a smile on a young kids face when she figures out how to do something. There were MANY volunteers who helped make my own DD's college career possible - and they will never be forgotten OR taken for granted. Without them, she may have never achieved her dream of playing college softball.

Lastly - Parents... talk to the college coaches. Most college coaches know all too well how insanely expensive the college path is getting. The more expensive it gets means fewer recruits being able to afford to play travel ball - and the college recruiting pool just gets smaller and smaller. I fully support any organization, large or small, that focuses it's efforts on keeping expenses LOWER - and there are some highly respected orgs. that are doing just that. AND many of their kids are showing up on college rosters.

P.S. - My apologies for an obvious thread hijack!

 

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I think you hit right on it.... volunteers. Private facilities that have paid workers have to either find ways to get a return on that money by not allowing coolers, kick-backs on hotels they steer teams to, etc. etc. or raise the entry fees appropriately. Often the private parks find that if they raise the entry fees teams won't get in the tourney (obviously). Most teams know up front the park rules yet they still enter and bitch about those same rules when the parents are upset. As stated in may posts in this thread the answer is to simple not enter those tournaments. But if you DO decided to sign up then you should follow the rules.

I've found that teams that go to a park that has all those rules quickly find out it wasn't worth it. However I do think there are some experiences that are. On the baseball side we have traveled to a few of them and thought it was awesome. We have also gone to a few that I felt were very poorly done and I've let people know about it.

 

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Sammy: They do it in Ohio, Indiana, Michigan and everwhere there is a college showcase. Colorado does it as well. These recruiting camps are a joke as well. Moneymaker with no purpose but that. Really look and see how much your DD is seen.

Look at all the people that go South... pay HUGE amount of money for the DD to be seen. Now, if that individual price tag of $350.00 ( $3500.00 per team of individuals the TD gets) who is making money? Now, understand the TD usually pays the coaching staff's stay and ballfields, umpires, etc... and believe you me.. there HAS to be a huge amount of money left over.... no doubt. Huge amount. Greed is the best word for it.

On Wednesday of this week.. I probally have the hugest meeting ever in my life in the world of softball of 26 years. This person likes the idea of what we are trying to pull off in West Virginia with two weekends of not only the colleges playing... the girls are being seen as well. Win-win for college coaches to play and recruit and get their whole team to watch and see how the girls act on the bench.. their interaction with other teammates, etc... as these are things coaches look at as well as talent.

NO Gold teams are allowed in the event. None. I don't want them. They serve NO purpose to college coaches anymore. This is an opportunity for the girls to be seen.. that normally don't get seen. That "Diamond in the Rough" needs to be seen. The teams play three full games each day. Not 1 hour 10 minutes and get off the field and thanks for your money kind of event.

I'm driving 6 1/2 hrs one way for this meeting for these girls. If I get their support at this meeting... watch that event go nuts within three weeks. Say a prayer for me that on Wednesday I am the best salesman in the world for these girls. I need it...LOL

Cathy is the recruiting guru and she is making an appearence at the IFA Elite Nationals in Beaumont Texas in July to talk to any parent or player entered into the event.

Would I love to have her at my event.. sure would. Now, I just have to figure out where I am going to get the money to pay for her airfare, motel expenses, food allowance, etc... and if I get it.. it comes from the Convention and Visitors Bureau in the county where I am holding the event. And what do they expect in return... butts in their members motels. Plain and simple.

 

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I don't understand why do they charge a field use fee? Do they prepare the field for you? It is to cover cost of clean up afterwards?

They have the fields and we want to use them, it's that simple. City budgets are strapped, any income is needed. When we were choosing the venue for the ASA Maple Leaf and the ASA Cinderella Classic, we were quoted anywhere from $125 to $500 per field/per day and then you have to hire their grounds crew on top of that. There is a tremendous amount of background costs that go into hosting a good tournament, more than you would ever imagine. Umpire costs are HUGE: (e.g. $35 per ump/game at two per game for a 65 team tournament 4gg = $11,060.)

 

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3dm: I'm surprised that you aren't using Barberton for $150 per field a day and not including lights... and then having to hire three of their workers at time and a half at $37.50 per hr.. knowing you need three of them for 12 hrs per day minimum.

3 workers per day = 1350.00 per day
6 Ballfields per day = $800 plus lights

Weekend total for facility = $4300.00 plus they get concessions !!!!! God help you if you use diamond dry or the lights...LOL

 

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Not using Barberton, we're in North Ridgeville at the Shady Drive Complex. I am absolutely pleased with how they have been working with us.

 

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... Sigh ...

 

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LOL.. I was joking about Barberton...LOL

 

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Maybe next year in Barberton... ya right !!!! :lmao:

 

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They have the fields and we want to use them, it's that simple. City budgets are strapped, any income is needed. When we were choosing the venue for the ASA Maple Leaf and the ASA Cinderella Classic, we were quoted anywhere from $125 to $500 per field/per day and then you have to hire their grounds crew on top of that. There is a tremendous amount of background costs that go into hosting a good tournament, more than you would ever imagine. Umpire costs are HUGE: (e.g. $35 per ump/game at two per game for a 65 team tournament 4gg = $11,060.)

No one should be paying $500 per field per day. I'm pretty well versed in the groundskeeping costs and one of the cities that charges the most per day charges $100 per day per field and will put up and take down 200' fences for that price and groom twice. Field grooming more in between games can cost you extra, how much depends on how many volunteers you have. In your above example umpire cost per team is $170 per team. That should be the highest cost per team. Other costs (field $125 * 2 days/4 teams per field typically) $62 per team for fields.

per team costs at a 65 team 4 GG
$170 umpires
$62 field
$24 4 game balls per team
$20 Awards
$10 Insurance (if needed independent of national registration)
$10 Registration with national organization.

So basically a 4GG isn't going to rise much above $300 cost per team. Showcases are off the charts, (airfare/hotel for coaches, appearance fees, etc..)

Around here weekend tourneys typically charge $275 for entry and ask that you not bring in food or drink (other than water for the team). I think it's reasonable to honor that given that they are providing the tourney's at or near cost. You don't get to bring your own food and drink into most events IME anyway. I don't see that anyone can tell you what you can have in your car (other than maybe banning guns from the park )

Even if you are paying heaven forbid $500 per field per day, I would guess that is for lighted fields which increases the number of games you can play per day and makes it possible to share the field with up to 8 teams. So max field cost per team woudl be $1500/8 = $188 per team

 

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I've only seen a few tourneys charging the wonderful price of $275 this year....and that is for a 3 GG. This years tourneys are through the roof - ranging from $325 to $450 and telling you to leave your cooler at your house.

Registration fees seems to be higher than last year. Gas is going up again too. Its almost becoming too expensive to enjoy!

 

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You forgot about the prizes/awards and diamond dry. Still have to have tournament money on the side to cover that cost if needed.

Not to forget, all these parents volunteering for the organization they belong are doing this to raise money for their org. Not so the girls can play at cost.

Classics last year was rained on and then rescheduled to finish it on another weekend for it just to rain on that weekend as well. Lost huge amounts of money on the event... but finished it. I don't see their event on the schedule yet.

 

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Please find me those $100 per day fields. Please PM me and I can check them out this week !!!!

Dover and New Philadelphia are already on my radar.

 

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I've only seen a few tourneys charging the wonderful price of $275 this year....and that is for a 3 GG. This years tourneys are through the roof - ranging from $325 to $450 and telling you to leave your cooler at your house.

Registration fees seems to be higher than last year. Gas is going up again too. Its almost becoming too expensive to enjoy!

Bulldog, ""telling you to leave your cooler at your house."" One heat stroke law suit for $10 million plus punitive damages would put an end to the no cooler rule. It might even be worth a phone call or a letter from your lawyer to the TD's insurance company.

 

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Our park has 9 fields (2 or 3 are only baseball though) and the city hasn't realized it can charge for using the fields yet. Only thing is you have to wait till a private org is done with their season (end of May) and the city's rec ball ends the first week of July.

Other than that our fields are completely free and you don't have to hire their ground crew. You have to do that yourself, but they do come in on Saturdays and pick up all the trash.

 

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Bulldog, ""telling you to leave your cooler at your house."" One heat stroke law suit for $10 million plus punitive damages would put an end to the no cooler rule. It might even be worth a phone call or a letter from your lawyer to the TD's insurance company.

That's why the TD are saying " Cooler for players water allowed"

 

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Wilmington fields are completely free...lights and all. They just ask that you pick up or help pick up the trash come Monday morning ( as they have mens leagues on Sunday night and they trash the place).

Wilmington does that so business comes to the community. Then again, it was the owner of Wendy's and Generation Pizza ( directly across from the park) that complained when we went after donations from the businesses to make the fields better and help the drainage problems with more dirt for a crown.

Tell me where that made sense on his part. Motels - restaurants all were chipping in until the guy yelled at the spineless mayor.. and the mayor ordered all donations to be given back to the business and spent NO money on the fields for the past two years.

Go figure.