Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Who should call the pitches?

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This is a spin off from the "toughest position to play" thread. Near the end (hopefully) of it, there's a comment that coaches never win games, they only lose games-- in reference to calling the pitches. I would like to see a rule against coaches calling pitches. I know it isn't practical or enforceable, but I wish it were.

1. It would speed up the games tremendously. How many times do you see a catcher looking to the bench for a pitch signal only to see the coach involved in a conversation with another coach or a parent or player. Even without that kind of thing, just the timely transfer of information adds three to five seconds between every pitch. Add it up and some of those 80-minute games could go six or seven innings instead of five.

(Of course, the signals to the catcher ARE being flashed at the SAME TIME as the hitter is stepping five feet from the box and staring down at the third base coach, who is furiously flashing his/her own signs even though the hitter has two strikes and there is no one on base. Sometimes the signs are really complicated because they have to be disguised so the other team won't know that in a 1-1 game with no outs and a runner at first, we're going to bunt. So the hitter has to walk down the line and ask what the series of really fast motions meant. The coach tells her to bunt. The hitter then takes five hard practice swings, hitting herself in the back every time. She then returns to the box, exhausted and bruised, with her hand up to make sure the umpire doesn't allow a "quick pitch" lol).

2. Pitchers and catchers who are well-coached DO NOT need to have a coach do their thinking FOR them. If YOU CAN COACH AT ALL, YOU CAN TEACH YOUR PLAYERS HOW TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES. Your catchers can learn which pitches to call for when and where. And your pitchers can learn to shake off the signal if they don't think it's right. They really can! In fact, it is your JOB AS A COACH to bring your pitchers and catchers to the point where they don't have to have their hands held with regard to running the game.

3. EVER HEAR OF TALKING TO YOUR PITCHER AND CATCHER BETWEEN INNINGS ABOUT THE HITTERS THEY'LL BE FACING NEXT? NO? THAT'S BECAUSE YOU INSIST UPON HAVING CONTROL OF THE OFFENSIVE PART OF THE GAME FROM THE THIRD BASE COACHING BOX, TOO. ISN'T IT? HEAD COACHES SHOULD DO THEIR TEAMS A FAVOR AND LET SOMEONE ELSE COACH THIRD. THEY'D COST THEIR TEAMS A LOT FEWER RUNS THAN WAY. JUST THINK! NO MORE RUNNERS GETTING THROWN OUT AT THIRD WITH NO OUTS. NO MORE RUNNERS GETTING CAUGHT IN RUNDOWNS BETWEEN THIRD AND HOME WITH NO OUTS AND THE CLEAN UP HITTER AT THE PLATE. NO MORE RUNNERS GETTING CAUGHT STEALING AT THIRD WITH TWO OUTS. IF THEY WANT A BUNT OR A STEAL, THEY CAN RELAY THAT INFORMATION TO THE PERSON (HOPEFULLY SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY PLAYED THE GAME AND KNOWS HOW TO RUN BASES AND HOW TO DEAL WITH GAME SITUATIONS) WHO IS COACHING THIRD. MEANWHILE, THE HEAD COACH CAN HAVE MEANINGFUL CONVERSATIONS WITH HIS/HER BATTERY ABOUT HOW TO PITCH TO THE HITTERS WHO ARE COMING UP NEXT INNING.

SAMPLE OF CONVERSATION BETWEEN COACH AND BATTERY WHILE TEAM IS ON OFFENSE: "All right you guys. We've got 4, 5 and 6 coming up next inning. Start the first girl with a change up. She looks first ball fastball every time. She hit it hard last time. Then work the hard stuff outside and inside. Nothing down the middle. You blew the five hitter away with the hard stuff last time so don't speed up her bat with the curve or the change. The six hitter likes it up, so let's stay down on her -- nothing over the middle. Hold on a second. Hey Joe! (flashes the bunt sign to the third base coach after lead-off hitter reaches with a single). Ok. Remember, if four or five gets on, don't worry about them stealing. They can't run. So if you want to mix in some off speed stuff to the next hitter, it's fine. The six hitter can run. So if she gets on, you want to make sure you throw the hard stuff to the seven hitter so we have a chance to throw out the baserunner if she goes. The eight hitter will bunt even with two outs. Throw the first one up and in to see what her intentions are. Maybe she'll pop one up for us."

That's what REAL coaches DO. They help to develop REAL BALLPLAYERS-- not just little robots.
 
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First of all I would LOVE to come watch the team you coach,They must be the GREATEST TEAM assembled...lol
Second I call the pitches from the bucket, not because I want control but it is what I feel as coach is the right thing to do...Why you ask...This game is so situational it changes from inning to inning, bat to bat , pitch to pitch...Not saying most of the girls I coach are not smart enough but as a coach I feel the key to calling pitches is to know the hitters and pitch to there weaknesses..I agree with what you said about talking in between innings about stratigies.We do that ALL THE time but Hitters make adjustments just as pitchers do. As a coach I look for that, the next time they are up....Example there #4 crushes one to fence on inside fastball last at bat, she may move up in box thinking I as coach is comming with a change-up maybe my pitcher and catcher does not notice this but I do, yes I have to teach them to read the hitter also but these teenagers have a ton of pressure on them already....I understand what you are saying that it is OUR job as coaches to teach the game not just coach, but it is the players job to play the game as well as learn.................JMHO BTW if I do not call the pitches and my players do a better job than me I will not have a job coaching and then I will have to become an umpire.....JK
 
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Maybe teach Joe how to make his own calls at 3rd base, too.
 
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The catcher should be the one calling it. They see how the pitches are moving, if the location is being hit, what is and what isn't working. The battery has to have trust in each other and one or the other should be able to shake each other off without any attitude about it. Sometimes the shake offs work, sometimes they don't, but you live with what you felt was right at the time and move on..... It's past, over, done...

Discussion between innings is a must as well. Some college coaches we are talking to on our campus tours are amazed on how many girls cannot call a game and do let them call them in College. Yes, they say they will send in a few signs, but for the most part it's up to the batteries for those that can.

Let you girls learn the game from all aspects and let them grow.... That's your job as a coach and if you do and they learn, you've done your job...:)
 
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The anwser changes with how competent and intelligent the catcher is ---the girl with the 14u rays calls her own game and is dang good. MD
 
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I will tell you who should call the game that will leave no doubt. Whoever is most successful and does it best either way. I have had catchers who never figure it out and I have had catchers who figured it out but could not process the information under game situations. I have also had catchers who were very good at calling a game.

Once again I do not think there is any set right or wrong and if you think there is you may just end up trying to put a round peg in a square hole:)
 
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643:

First of all, your initial response, "your team must be the greatest team ever assembled," misses the point and reveals you as insecure and egotistical. This thread isn't about MY team, but you've made it obvious that it is most DEFINITELY about YOURS. I suggest that you take a chance sometime and sit in the bleachers and watch your team play. If they don't play well without you, then you haven't taught them very much. In that case, you should just buy an electric train set. You can have complete control and no one will question your judgement. If they DO play well, then you've learned something --that they're a lot smarter than you knew, and that you're a good coach.

MY goal will never be to have the "greatest team ever assembled." It will ALWAYS be to have the best-coached, most intelligent players ever assembled. If that's not YOUR goal, then it's not about THEM--- It's about YOU!
 
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lol....thats good insecure and egotistical....far from both.....Was joking on the greatest team thing You always say that the players should not need coaches coaching first base...coaches calling pitches for them..ECT ECT ECt.... I all I said or meant in my post is It works for me and MY team and has for a couple years....We had 2 fall ball games today and I let the battery call both games...Some good came out of it on some not so good....For anyone out there that knows me it is ALWAYS about my girls and THE team NEVER about me......BTW I HATE trains get me a race track..........lol
 
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I know 643dp doesnt need me to speak for him BUT... lol, insecure and egotistical are about the last 2 words I would use to describe him.

Thebetterhitter- you would actually really like 643dp as a coach, he is one of those coaches that doesnt think he knows it all, is always trying to learn more about the game and his players love playing for him. His team actually had some HUGE upsets this year, and a few of the upsets he turned around a few weeks later and beat those teams again.

Really good coach and an even better person.

My kid does not play for him but I would never hesitate having her play for him.
 
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I was a catcher so I am biased, but I think the catcher should call her own games. Nowadays, if you don't have a good catcher, you are done. If you recruited and instructed well, she should have no problems. It is about reading batters and situations, if she can do that, she can call a game. She may cost you 1 or 2 games in the beginning, but she will be a much better catcher for it, which will only help the team. It also forges a great bond between your pitcher and catcher. The game is about them, why not let them make some calls-if you taught them right, you can sit back and enjoy the game.
 
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Good enough for me, Uber. Sorry, DP. Your racetrack is on the way.
 
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depends on the age group - you have to teach your catcher while they are young - then, if you have taught them well, and they are good - let them play their game - they have earned it.
 
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I totally agree with Spirit1. To say that the catcher should always call pitches is the wrong way to go. Some catchers want to catch and not call pitches. The pitchers have had their pitches called since 10U. Unless the pitcher throws 60+ miles per hour they either need to know how to call their own game or have someone that knows them well call their games. For a coach to say the catcher needs to call the game usually means they can't.
There are catchers out there that can call a game with anyone. Don't mistaken though, some of you that think your daughter's call a great game, the pitcher's dad thinks he can call it a lot better than her.
 
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The Catcher should be making the pitch call. She is seeing first hand whether or not her pitcher is able to throw what pitches are called that day. And if she is hitting the spots as requested. The pitcher always has the opportunity to change the call as well as the coach. Hopefully the coach lets his or her Catcher / Pitcher do their job.

" A solid catcher is always aware of whats happing in the game, players on base as well as previous at bats. It should strictly be a game of chess for her - Strategy "

IMHO - a catchers dad
 
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Great post's on a great topic, but having the catcher call the game can cut both ways. Yes, the catcher has the best view and command being right behind the plate knowing what the umpire prefers as balls and strikes. But, it is alot to remember through out the course of the game for a young woman of 15 or 16. It is also to easy for the parents of the pitcher to find a scapegoat when little suzy is having a bad day, " why is she calling so many fastballs", when the real reason is suzy's fastball was supposed to be a dropcurve outside, but is just **** by the 3rd inning.
 
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First I want to apoligize to thebetterhitter, Very unprofessional in my Greatest team assembled comment, I must have woke up on the wrong side of the bed...being a Lions and tigers fan has made me irritable lately...lol...
Second all I was sying is that it is what we do as a team because it has worked.....I just feel as a coach it is my repsonsabilty to put these young ladies in the best position to be succsesful and With me calling pitches IMO is the best way....Maybe I am holding some players back by doing this, But maybe I am also helping them by taking a little stress off them too....Either way there is NO wrong answer just whatever is best for the team and ladies....
 
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Do we all realize that the pitching coach or head coach in MLB still calls a lot of the pitches, the same with the Ladies Olympic Team. How about the head coach signaling signs to the base coaches in the Majors? There is a reason, there is a coach! If we thought players knew everything then we wouldn't need coaches. I agree to give some freedom to the Pitcher and Catcher, but don't let them hang themselves. Coaches are there for confidence and support, and a player should always have the confidence to look over to thier coach and know they will help them get out of a jam or give them the attaboy they need. If coaches just filled out the line up and turned the kids loose, then aren't we really playing rec ball?
 
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As I was just made aware of just recently about girls 15 and younger having problems retaining skills developed just a week before is due to the pre-frontal cortex of the brain is not fully developed. That includes that length of memory as well as decision making skills. And each pitch is a decision, in addition a smart club has people taking notes on the other team batters as to what they can and can't hit and what they hit well. I don't remember ever seeing a 10th player sitting at a desk just behind the pitcher telling her what the batter can and can't hit, that is why good coaches call pitches, they just accumulate the information and process it to determine the best possible pitch for the situation.
 

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