Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Who should call the pitches?

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On second thought, I agree with Toumbstone about the fans calling the pitches. Evryone knows that we fans are smarter than coaches and players. We can also see better than umpires so we should probably call balls and strikes too !

 

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Cincy:

Did you see what happened in the Steelers' game Monday night? Pittsburgh was down 13-3 at half. Roethlisberger goes to the coach and suggests that they run the "no huddle" offense for the second half. This offense consists of the quarterback standing in the shotgun and looking at the defense and calling his own plays based on what he sees. Coach says, ok. Final score: Steelers 23 Ravens 20. Sure, the QB can check off in a normal offense any time he sees fit, but the coach starts getting p o'd if he does it a lot.

It's the same in softball. The pitcher can shake off the catcher's sign after the coach gives her the signal--- but if she shakes it off more than once in a while, she can expect a trip to the mound.

 

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Yeah, he discussed it with the coach.....big difference between just shaking off pitches without discussing it with the coach calling the signs. If the coach wants to call the signs and the pitcher is seeing something that he/she isn't then maybe she should talk to the coach between innings or even call a time-out. I don't see why that can't work.

 

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My 12 dd has started to call her own pitches. She started this past season and much more this fall ball season. She really enjoys have control of the game. It also keeps her more alert of what is going on. I found a wonderful link to help her with calling a game.

www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/5977/waacat.htm

I hope it can help any other girls and coaches with what to call and when.

Mark

 

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I would say it depends on the age and talent level of both the pitcher and catcher.And the talent level of the coach to deligate who is best to call the pitches.

 

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My ex calls the game,,,,,, from the stands, umps and coaches from there too.

:lmao: sorry but that is funny! I think ive heard him!

 

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Its a no brainer, the coach should be calling them. Just watch major league baseball, they are professionals and they are called from the dug out for the most part.

As a coach, I have a better idea on what's going on with the hitters, who's coming up, what I am looking for. Also, I can align my defense or try to call pitches looking for a ball to be hit a certain way, or direction. Catcher's have enought to worry about, like catching and blocking balls, preparing for bunts, and throwing out runners.

What takes longer in games is teams that walk off and on the field. Now if you want to make them pick up the pace, have them run off and on the field like they should be doing anyway.

 

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I believe that the catcher should make calls however, there should be a re-cap with the coach, pitcher, and catcher between innings. On our team, The two coaches do not call any pitches-that is what I am there for. At practices I work with the pitchers and catchers on signs and different strategies with batters. I want them to be confident going out there and being one solid unit.

My catcher is also responsible for letting her fielders know what is going on with the batter and if there is back up needed some where. A catcher has a lot to do and remember so I definitley make it a point to talk to her about the next four batters that she will face. She usually calls the right pitches. If she feels that a pitcher is not landing a pitch she will shake me off and cal her own pitch. The pitcher, catcher, and I all work together to get out of an inning.

 

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Football and softball are totally different, its like comparing apples and oranges, the no huddle works in football because they keep the defense on the field and don't allow them to make changes and also to keep them winded if they are tired.

 

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Let's add a different view. What about the pitcher's dad? We all know that they have a totally different outlook on softball.

Ask any pitcher's dad who should be calling the pitches. His response would be:
1. Himself
2. Himself
3. Himself
4. her mom
5. the coach
6. the catcher

 

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Gotta love bucket dads, or what we call Division I dads. lol

 

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I personally think that the catcher should call the game, but what is really funny to me is to watch a coach calling all kinds of pitches and truly all the pitcher has is a fastball and a change.

 

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Pitchers dad's should never call the game unless they are a a coach on the team, who takes the blame when the wrong pitch is thrown? the pitcher's dad sitting behind the backstop. yeah right! Let the girls learn for themself's, it is- their game after all. IMHO-The coach should have the final say on the pitch selection, but with minimal input, we let the cather call the game, with the pitcher able to shake off the pitch and the 2 of them working it out together. This way- they the girls- learn the game. We are trying to teach the girl's to think for themselfs and not be robots. If they make a mistake we will suggest what to throw next time in that situation so they learn from it. My daughter has called her own game since she was 11 and has a good understanding of the game, sometimes i call the pitch maybe 3 or 4 times a game, but try to let her take control. My other cather also calls her own game and both do a great job. Also my # 1 pitcher's dad is a coach on the team and does not call pitches, he was a former catcher and believes the catcher should call the game.

 

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Let's add a different view. What about the pitcher's dad? We all know that they have a totally different outlook on softball.

Ask any pitcher's dad who should be calling the pitches. His response would be:
1. Himself
2. Himself
3. Himself
4. her mom
5. the coach
6. the catcher

Humor aside, (yes, this was my vain attempt at humor) whoever calls the pitches needs to have positive 3-way communication. There are things that the catcher sees that a coach will not. There are things that the coach sees that the catcher cannot. There are things seen by the pitcher that neither the catcher or coach see. It takes all 3 to get the whole picture and call an effective game.

One thing that I do not see too often is a pitcher, or catcher, shaking off a sign. This is part of the 3-way communication. So much goes into calling pitches. The batters weaknesses, the batters swing, the defense, the game situation, etc. It takes the team concept to call pitches. It doesn't matter which coach is in on the pitch calling, just that they establish and maintain the positive communication.

 

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We played a team and their bench was on the 3rd base side where I stood while we were on offense. On at least 6 or 7 occasions during the game after we had a solid shot in the gap or over an outfielders head one of the coaches in the dugout would look at the other and ask "what did she call there"? Then they yelled out to the catcher "don't call that pitch again please". Probably 5 or 6 times during the game I heard parents in the crowd saying "mix it up a little" in reference to the catchers pitch calls.

Now I am one of those who clearly come down on the side of coaches calling pitches. It has nothing to do with the catcher not being smart enough or capable for some other reason...it has more to do with knowing where we want the ball pitched for a particular hitter in a particular situation and having the defense set accourdingly. I am sure that when our catchers go on to play college softball and their coaches want them to call pitches, it will be a very small adjustment and they will be able to do it with little or no trouble. Having said that I still see the majority of D1 college teams calling pitches from the dugout on a regular basis.

 

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Okay, this will probably sound silly to many of you, but here goes. I think calling pitches is overrated (particularly at the younger ages) when you consider that execution plays the more important role in the entire equation. What good is calling a pitch the pitcher can't throw that day? Or, you call a pitch and it ends up coming in at a completely different speed and location than you anticipated? Yeah, you need to change it up and try to take advantage of perceived weaknesses, but sometimes I think adult pitch callers are just kidding themselves that they are in control of what's actually happening on the field.

Now, having said that, when a pitch is called and executed to perfection, it should make both the pitcher and the catcher feel good. But if the coach is calling the game, it takes away some of that thrill that the battery should be feeling.

Coaches, leave it to the girls to call the games. It's fun for them. Why take it away so you can steal the glory? Let 'em play!

 

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I guess that I don't see it as "taking it away' from either the pitcher or the catcher at all. The responsibility is to put the TEAM the best position to have an oppertunity to win the game. I think that from 12U on up, good pitchers should be able to pitch to location a high percentage of the time. In addition to that they should be able to change speeds regularly. Otherwise they will not have success even if coach Candrea is calling pitches.

More then once I have seen parents in the stands gripe and complain because they lost a game because the catcher called the wrong pitch. I would not want my catcher heading home thinking that she caused the team the game because of a bad location call or a poorly timed change up. We typically go over with our catcher & pitcher how we are going to attack a particular team. They both need to be on the same page and we all have to know the plan.

 

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http://www.windpitch.com/PitcherCatcherChart.html With this information and all the charting that is done ,along with scouting. I think you overwelm the catcher. So After many years in this sport I agree with Rich ( Ohio Wave). I see most coaches calling the game. Last year when I was able to scout the next team we were going to play , we normally would win that game, as I would tell the coach what pitch to throw to what batter. Hitting coaches , can see flaws in swings that a player cannot see.

 

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SBFAMILY I have seen that chart before and it is a good reference. I typically try to stay away from these threads that address "who should call the pitches" because it always seems to lean towards coaches trying to take the game away from the players. I can tell you that in our case we work very hard during the Fall and Winter months building players individual and team skills as well as knowledge of the game. When the season starts we are out to apply those skills and win games. As I mentioned earlier both our pitchers and catchers are in tune with what batters are trying to do during the game and they are encouraged to provide input and pay attention to detail. They have a ton of responsibility already and we never sell them short or try to take any portion of the game away from them.

I am not sure if it is the best way or not but it has always worked well for our teams. Others may find it better to address the issue the oposite way. I am sure that many have very good success with that style. I guess thats why this topic is always well attended.

 

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I agree with you WAVE that this is a very subjective topic. I have just a couple of other thoughts.

If I'm a college coach (I'm not) scouting a pitcher or catcher at a tournament, would I rather see the kids calling their own game? I dunno. Just asking.

I've always heard my dd coaches say you play like you practice. So as coaches, if we've done a good job in practice, why not see how the girls respond?

I understand the parent concern. You'd think they were on the field themselves;& ...but as a coach I would say a bigger job than actually managing the game pitch by pitch would be keeping the parents informed of why you think it's important that the girls call the game themselves.

I like winning too, and you do have a responsibility to the team. And, if the catcher indicates they want help calling a game, then that's a different story. But for the coach to insist on calling games when we should be about teaching and preparing for the next level? I'm against that.

Thanks for the great discussion. In the end, it probably boils down to different things working for different players, coaches and teams. That's why I respect anyone who is willing to put in the time and effort to be a coach.