Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Who should call the pitches?

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Hmmm. Just got back from Kent State watching college fall ball. I did not see a single catcher calling her own game. BUT - that's college ball, and that's just the way it is.

Up until 14u, catchers need to be taught not only how to be an effective catcher, but also how to read and "set up" batters with their pitcher. At 14u, cut them loose a little - let them start calling, BUT keep a leash on. Some are very good by 14u, some haven't a clue. It's a great part of the learning process - the "why" of throwing a certain pitch and location.

If and when they get to the college level, they won't be calling pitches anyway. But by having called pitches before, they'll be a much smarter catcher, and it will make a coaches job much easier.

 

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Good post. As a coach I do give my catcher free run of SOME games. I think it helps them understand the game a little better. My goal is to have the Pitcher call the game, with help of the catcher. Pitcher and Catcher should be in sync with eachother and should understand what the situation is. They dont get better with everone else calling games, we as coaches should help out in need but, they are at the age where they should ( 15, 16,18) understand what they need to do. Just my thinking. Let them learn on their own!! It is their game....

 

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Oh, for Godsake! Are you guys kidding me? With all those cortex problems and such, how the heck do their teachers make such unreasonable demands on them like memorizing spelling words and math processes? I'm surprised we can even ask them to remember where to stand when the bus comes! I have to re-evaluate everything.

By the way, if Candrea had stayed in the hotel and let his players decide who was going to pitch the gold medal game, they'd have picked Abbott. The catcher would have called the game in his absence-- and they probably would be wearing gold medals instead of silver. Just because the goofs who have claimed the girls' softball world as their personal chess game, insulting the intelligence of players and apparently ignorant parents alike, say it's so, doesn't make it right.

Do you do your daughter's homework for her? Is that the best way for her to learn? Or do you teach her how to do it, and then let do it herself? Teach them how to play the game in practice. Then, let them play the game.

 

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TBH - All well and good for summer club ball. My DD's catcher called every pitch from 14u up through 18u, and it made her a smarter, more versatile catcher. BUT - that all changed when they both started playing college ball.

I wish you best of luck convincing your DD's college coach to relinquish control of ANY part of the game they feel the need to control. Right or wrong, good or bad, that's just the way it is. It's a battle you won't win. The college coaches are paid to do what they feel is best, and if and when their decisions create losing seasons, the Athletics Director will fire them and hire a replacement. Completely different scenario than travel ball.

 

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hey Sammy please start a thread and post the results that you saw when you were at Kent State this weekend, i know a few of the players and would like to know what teams did what. thanks


DD pitches college, i think U14 and up catcher/pitcher should call some they know whats working and whats not but coaches (most) should be available during the game to talk about it. but in college that is why they pay pitching coaches..

 

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http://www.windpitch.com/PitcherCatcherChart.html I have talked to some very good coaches that scout every hitter on the team they face. Everything is plotted on a laptop and the hitting coach along with the pitching coach have a game plan on how to pitch to that player,so at the next level the catcher has input, but very few call the game. It is very important that the catcher works with a hitting coach . The web site above gives you an idea, but what pitch to call based on how a batter stands and holds the bat can make a very big difference. I have watched catchers call for a change up to a slapper, or a bunt siutation. It take many hours of training to have a catcher know what to call and when to call it. This is why hitting coaches have girls, what we call dance in the box. Don't let them know what pitch to throw.

 

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http://www.windpitch.com/PitcherCatcherChart.html I have talked to some very good coaches that scout every hitter on the team they face. Everything is plotted on a laptop and the hitting coach along with the pitching coach have a game plan on how to pitch to that player,so at the next level the catcher has input, but very few call the game. It is very important that the catcher works with a hitting coach . The web site above gives you an idea, but what pitch to call based on how a batter stands and holds the bat can make a very big difference. I have watched catchers call for a change up to a slapper, or a bunt siutation. It take many hours of training to have a catcher know what to call and when to call it. This is why hitting coaches have girls, what we call dance in the box. Don't let them know what pitch to throw.

SBFAMILY; This is an excellent chart. I have used this for several years and provide it to all of my pitcher and catchers. I feel it is necessary for them to begin memorizing this chart ; the younger the better. The understanding that a catcher develops using this chart, accompanied with a coach calling pitches at the beginning of their catching carrier will allow a player in the older 14u and up to call a majority of their own games.

My catchers know that if I call their name and tap my chest in a specific squence, I am now taking over the calls. Otherwise, it is their baby. I have very seldom had an issue where a catcher called the wrong scenario. Most of this is because I keep spray charts for every team I play and "if" we seem them again, we pull out all historical charts for that team. These are used by the pitcher and catcher when on offense to view and use as a knowledge basis for upcoming hitters.

Give them the tools to be successful and fill in the gaps when necessary.

 

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feistymom: Excellent post, you will be in shock how few coaches keep any charts on players they have faced in the past. Even playing the same team the next day , few know what they hit and where they hit it. Those coaches are missing the boat and giving the other team an advantage.

 

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The scoreboards were not running, so I don't have any idea of the scores. Here's a link to KSU's web site showing the teams/schedule, but I couldn't find any final scores. Maybe each participating team has scores on their respective sites?? I'm checking...

 

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I have sat behind the backstop and watched Alex Machen of Lebanon and Gretchen Angel of Fairfield call pitches. Any coach at any level who thinks they can do a better job from the dugout that these girls can from behind the plate is just wrong. No matter what kind of scouting data you have, you just can't see from the dugout what a catcher can see from behind the plate in terms of what pitches are working for the pitcher, how batters are reacting to them, and what the unpire is calling on any given day.

 

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Sammy:

I AM talking about summer ball. I couldn't care less what the college coaches do. They've got their jobs on the line and the players are essentially professionals. Once the daughters get the free college education, I don't care if the coach wants to tell them what to say in the post-game interview! Free school is pretty much the end game for girls' softball. For the amount of money the parents on these travel teams are paying, the least they can expect is that their daughters be taught to play the game-- and that means being able to think for themselves from a strategic standpoint.

 

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BetterHitter:

Just to play the role of Devil's Advocate here, let's assume that we are all softball-saavy enough to agree that the catcher is truly the "field general" of any given softball game... now, let's look at the equivalent position in a variety of settings and see where it takes us:

Football/Offense - QB: Does the QB call all the plays himself, or do the calls come in from an offensive coordinator?

Football/Defense - MLB: Does the MLB call all the defensive schemes on a play-to-play basis, or do the calls come in from a defensive coodinator?

Basketball - Point Guard: Does the point guard run his/her own random set plays and defensive strategy during a game, or does the coach on the sideline make those calls?

War - Military: Do troops in the battlefield direct their efforts in whatever campaign they see fit, or does the brigadier general dictate the move-to-move operations based on his intel?

We can pretty much see where this is going... so why should softball pitch-calling be so different than other similar avenues? Something to think about.

 

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Cincy:

In football, the coaches have the benefit of seeing the field from the press box. It's a wide view that can't be seen by the QB. On the other hand, many of the greatest QB's in history called their own plays-- Namath, Unitas, etc. They did it with input from other players who would come back to the huddle with information about their matchups ("I can beat my guy deep.") That kind of thing doesn't happen much anymore and it shows.

In basketball: the coach might holler out a play or two, but most offenses are standard motion-type offenses that get started and then just go where they go-- or they just give it to Lebron and clear out.

In war: the general may have a plan, but the general is never out where it is being executed. The Lieutenants and sergeants generally make all the decisions based on what they see when they get there.

I'd say someone who's in the game is more likely to make a better-informed decision than someone who isn't.

 

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let's settle this ------ have the fans call the pitches,most of them want to anyway LOL

 

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TheBetterHitter is right. The coaches job should be to macro manage the game, not micro manage it. Let the kids learn while they play. Yes, they will make mistakes but good players learn from them. Letting them think for themselves will only help them, not hurt them. If you want your dd to have every possible chance of obtaining some form of scholarship in this sport, let them get "game smart". The smarter they are, the better they'll be. Athletic ability alone does not necessarily cut it if they're making stupid mistakes in the field.

Len

 

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The person who has the best knowledge of the game, what the pitcher throws best and isn't afraid to make a mistake should call the game. Some 12-18 year olds fit that mold, but not a lot.
I'd rather see the coach put the wait on his shoulders.

 

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TBH - well said and I agree, although Cincy does toss in some great food for thought. Looking back, I consider travel ball to be sort of like the Minors is to MLB. It's where you train for the next level. You learn all you can about the game and polish your individual skills. You should be free to liberally take risks to constantly test your limits as an athlete. Otherwise, you'll never know where you stand.

I've said before that I think catchers should be calling the shots - and thereby learning - roughly between 14u and 18u. All I like to see is an occasional "suggestion" from a coach. It's a learning process, not life or death. Make mistakes and learn. I'd trade a lost travel ball game in a heartbeat if the catcher could come away from that game with some brilliant insight to use in the next game. And there ALWAYS will be a NEXT game...

 

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My dd is a catcher and she would rather call her own game.She knows if a pitcher has a pitch that just is not working,along with how the batter is sitting up in the box.Also if the ump has a tight strike zone or loose one.The coach can't always see those thing from where he is sitting.
But you have to have a catcher that is able to read all of those things.
She also has to know if a runner is going to steal and have the right pitch called to get the runner out.

 

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Sammy and BetterHitter---I really enjoy listening to you two talk ball, and it's even better when you talk to each other. Not to gush, but I'm a big fan.

 

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I'm starting to get jealous kat!:lmao:

Sammy and BetterHitter---I really enjoy listening to you two talk ball, and it's even better when you talk to each other. Not to gush, but I'm a big fan.