Question about IFA payouts.

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It is funny that he has a call into the NCAA for tom.. I called the NCAA today and got an instant answer to the question. The award cannot be greater than the entry to the tournament so if you pay 350 for a tournament it cannot be greater than that. The convention bureau cannot provide the travel expense money it has to come from the tournament. This is what I was told today the OHSAA is not the controling factor the governing body is the NCAA they are the harshest on the rules this is what you all need to follow. WHo is willing to get a 10 year old in trouble and not to be able to play college let alone be able to play high school sports.
 
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Marion Tournament for 10U and 12U will do what needs to be done, NO CHILD's ELIGIBILITY WILL BE PUT AT RISK! I will wait for Quakerman's response; however, I really like what IFA brings to the table and the passion Quakerman has about the girls and giving back! One way or the other, Marion Tournament will give back and within the guidelines of OHSAA and NCAA! The Marion Tournament is going to be hosted by a travel team (Mid Ohio Bombers 12U) and we will not be playing in the tournament. I wouldn't put my kids at risk and I wont put anyone else's at risk either. However I know what I'm budgeting for 1st and 2nd place so Prize ideas would be greatly appreciated? I really like the Custom Sweat Suit for First if Money cant be given. Let us know Friday Quakerman!
 
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How long is this thread going to go on. For my tournaments now I am giving away a Hummer for 1st place and then the rest of the teams will get Yugo's. Wait. I need to give away Foreign cars. 1st will get a BMW of Choice.:lmao::lmao::lmao:
 
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First off let me say that NANA is absolutely wrong about anything she said about the prize can be no greater than the entry fee. To let some people in on some things, Tom and I have been bombarded with letters from a certain person, which I will leave out for now, who has said the same thing... and I want people to understand there is an underlying thing with a new poster that comes on to make a statement with their first post like they did. Obviously, we have stepped on some toes here in Ohio and this is surely not finished.. because I just absolutely hate a liar or someone who posts and truthfully misinforms the coaches and parents and the players.

After talking with the NCAA people today, under NCAA guidelines we can indeed give the prizes and it will not make any girl ineligible. Through questioning for 30 minutes, the gentleman answered everything for us. When asked about the expense money and how it can be applied, it does include any costs provided by the parent to get the athlete to and from the National tournament.. it doesn't have to be based on the national tournament. This cost includes: gas, motel, food, admissions, etc... as the child is under the age of 18 and/or 18 and just finished their high school senior year.

Obviously, we all know that OHSAA is a dinosuar when it comes to rules. They refused to be a part of the conversation with NCAA.

I will be typing a letter to NCAA this evening to put out in the morning mail to which I will be asking the same questions as was asked today of them. That way I have it on their letterhead for all to view and will be able to send to coaches and parents via e-mail on request. Please be patient.

Rules you can go check out at www.ncaa.org and read without having to buy their handbook is available for all to see. Please note: There is absolutely NO mention of any amount such as NANA poster has said. Tommy Voss and myself have come to the conclusion there are people out there trying to SCARE teams away from our events and most are for their own reason. Internet law, which deals with malicious mistatements are new.. but believe you me I will hold anyone responsible for giving out misleading information. After the phone call today with NCAA, I have hired an attorney who specializes in internet law concerning misleading statements which are damaging financial wise to me and IFA. Word of warning, I will come and take legal action against you. I have no doubts. You can't hide behind a sign on name and make misleading statements.

Go to www.ncaa.org. Look for the section called "Legislation and Goverance. Move the mouse to there and in the box will pop up Rules and By-laws and click that. On the next page, under Division 1... click "search LSDBi ". On the next page put in these numbers:

12.1.2.1.4.1 and bylaw 12.1.2.4.1 You will see by reading these bylaws that there is NO mention of any set amount maximum that can be given. Read for yourself.

Now, I have forwarded to my TD and respected people on the OFC copies of the letters Tommy and I received from a certain person and all this person could do was say how there was a certain amount..blah, blah, blah.

Those individuals will be free to post what they have read and I hope for these girls they do as misinformation has no place in girls softball.

Next, is the issue with OHSAA... our wonderful dinosaur in Ohio. I have sent these same individuals the letter I received from Debbie Moore of OHSAA where the other day, she said that she had never been asked that question in her 20 years. Today's refusal by OHSAA to come onto the conference call has given me the indication that there is "mud" in the air and needless to say, I'm stirring it up. Tommy Voss and the whole IFA organization is completely behind me and have told me they will back me to the hilt on this matter.

Things for people to think about in Ohio and OHSAA:

a) if Bylaw 4-10-2 (a,b,c) says that prizes of money cannot be given based on finishing placement in a tournament... then why are some association being allowed to give out paid berths to the National Tournament ? Of course, this isn't direct money given to the kids, but neither is our prizes of "travel expense monies". They are given to the organization who in turns uses that money for entry fees and travel expenses for the girls.

At www.OHSAA.org you can see the by-laws: These include 4-10-2 (a,b and c) but then again they contradict themselves in 4-10-3 where it talks about "Receiving an award, playing equipment or prize of monetary value which does not exceed the awards amount authorized by the association". In another by law, the amount is set at $200 per athlete. Needless to say, we fall way under that amount.

Needless to say, I have stirred the pot in Columbus for their vague bylaws and today asked for their attorney's name, phone number and address. His name is Steve Craig out of Canton, Ohio. On Monday morning, he will be receiving a registered letter from me asking for a defination of their by-laws .... as it pertains to our prizes that we wish to give.

I will also send a copy of this letter, as well, to all the people on the OFC who I feel are credible people and they can once again post the contents of the letter for all to read.

Until we get an answer, that is not trying to be avoided by officials of OHSAA, I am instructing my TD's to give out uniforms, jackets, sweatsuits, whatever.. based on the amount of teams they see fit. I will be supplementing you with National bid money to help offset the costs of giving these prizes. If we should win our battle with OHSAA, then we will change and add the "travel expense monies" as well. Nothing like our Ohio girls (or other Region 10 teams) going to the Nationals with new uniforms and expense monies to help them get there... should they decide to go to our event. We will not hold them to going to our National event to get the prizes offered in some of our tournaments. I refuse to be like the other associations.

There is nothing in this world I wouldn't do for these girls... and Mr Clark (Johnnies) said something in the thread "gaining respect" that is very hard for me to live up to... but I can guarentee you that I or any TD associated in IFA tournaments are nothing more than caring for the girls and will give it our best to give back to the girls. Obviously, these TD's are trying to raise money for their organizations and I try to help them by offsetting some of their tournament expenses so they can keep the money for their girls.

I think the time has come to go after OHSAA for being a dinosaur. Our girls in Ohio are hurt when other states have rules that don't regulate them so much. Being able to win "travel expense monies" like other states can do... is one factor of many.

I will not be posting again until the first of next week. Be patient. Like Arnold said, "I'll be back". I got some unfished business to take care of that is pressing.
 
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Here is the list of the Board of Directors of OHSAA. These people are the people of the community and people should let them know about their vagueness of their by-laws and ask for change.

Mike Richards richardsm@ae.noacsc.org (Superintendant of Allen East School District-Harrod, Ohio)

Keith Bell bellk@wssoh.org (Represents Westerville on the board)

Teresa Alberts albertsteresa@garaway.k12.oh.us (Principal at Sugarcreek)

Gene Klaus gklaus@northmontschools.org ( Northmont Human Services)

Bill Koppel william.koppel@neomin.org ( Mineral Ridge rep)

Rocco Nero lowe-rn@access-k12.org (Super at Lowellville)

Steve Stirin sstirn@loganhocking.k12.oh.us (Super at Logan-Hocking)

Jay Wolfe jay-wolfe@olentangy.k12.oh.us ( Lewis Center)

Tom Farbizo farizot@npschools.org ( New Philadelphia school district)

Rock VanFossen rock@cardnet.stark.k12.oh.us ( Forgot - but out of Stark Co.)

These people need to know the disatisfaction of how the OHSAA is treating their student-athletes is felt by the fast pitch community. You can't expect change, if you just sit on the sidelines and say nothing. Every individual is going to have their own concerns but these concerns should be voiced to these people since they are the Board of Directors. I can do only so much to raise their awareness of how people in the fastpitch world feel.... the rest is on you.

I'll lead the battle..... but like anything else in life... you need the soldiers. It is time for them to give up some of that hold and regulations that no longer make sense for the athletes in Ohio. We all know they are confusing with their by-laws. It has been said by the people on this OFC.

I ask for you to step up, it is time for change in Ohio. It is time to rid ourselves of the "dinosaur".
 
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Quakerman, you know what they say, "When you mess with the bull....."

quaker_ohsaa.jpg
 
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thats to all for a great winter night's read . better than any NY times bestseller ! And I did'nt even stir the pot any -----did hear that district 9 was giving a grand to the best LL team in scioto co next year to attend the state tourney. ;&;&;& MD
 
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I had this sent to me from a respected OFC member and thought I'd post it:
Roxanne,

I have a question pertaining to amateur status.

Scenario:

An AAU/Travel organization sponsors a tournament in which there are only AAU/travel teams. No school sponsored teams participate. This tournament offers "Travel Money" as an award for winning the Championship. At the conclusion of the tournament, the winning coach is "awarded" the "Travel Money" based on his team winning the Championship. Are the girls on the winning team still considered amateurs under OHSAA guidelines?


The OHSAA By-Laws, Section 4 Student Eligibility, paragraph 10. Amateur, states the following:

4-10-2 An athlete forfeits amateur status, and thus interscholastic athletic eligibility, if any of the following standards of amateurism are violated:

a) Competing for money or other remuneration. Allowable travel, meals and lodging expenses may be accepted provided that these expenses are not conditioned on the individual's or team's place finish or performance or given on an incentive basis. In addition, receipt of expenses in excess of the same reasonable amount for permissible expenses given to all individuals or team members involved in the competition is not permitted;

We have several people within our organization and the softball community that all have different interpretations of this bylaw so we are asking for your interpretation.

Thank you.

OFC Member



Mr. OFC Member:
The bylaw you reference indicates that the travel expenses cannot be based on a team's place of finish. You clearly state that the travel expenses are paid for a team "winning the championship", that would mean that only that team would receive the expenses. This would be a violation of the amateur bylaw, irrespective of who receives the money. You would in effect be defraying or incurring the cost for the team.

.......

Regards,
Roxanne
 
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The OHSAA is a farce, they are one of the biggest Capitalistic entities around!!!
The OHSAA has no problem profiting from our children through the playing of tournaments. :confused::mad:
 
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Similar to the NCAA. A lot of paper pushers make very comfortable livings off the backs of "amateur" athletes.
 
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I think the BMW and Yugo's was a bit much. So i have decided to change the prizes

1st place teams will get 4year scholarships to the collage of easy street. (they whooped everyone in the tournament, so they get it easy)

2nd thru last will get 4yr scholarships to the college of hard knocks (If you ain't 1st your last)
 
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WOW! What a topic! The OHSAA is the governing body that establishes and protects the amateur status of high school athletes. I think its great if a tournament has the funds to offer prize money. However, I feel that until a solid ruling is established, everyone should proceed with caution. We don't want to see players hurt by a ruling later.
 
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It looks like this just keeps getting more and more confusing. I wonder if the same rules apply to tournaments that give out paid births? I remember a few years ago the former usssa state director used to give out a paid birth to the winner but she would basically mail the payment directly to the world series site on behalf of the team. The team never actually touched the prize. Any thoughts?
 
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And this is why I am going after them. If another sanctioning body can give out paid berths for the winners (monetary value) then why should I not be allowed to do the same. Monetary value is monetary value... no matter how it is put.

The NCAA has realized and adapted. OHSAA has not and remained a dinosaur. (Ringer: Too bad the bull wasn't a dinosaur... but I loved it anyway. I can't wait for the day when you can post it with me on the other end of the stick)

I believe this puts our girls at a disadvantage to girls from other states that are allowed to win "travel prize monies". Needless to say, the fight has just begun. Because paid berths are money, sweet and short to the point... and these paid berths are money paid to teams based on their finish. And if that statuate is true with OHSAA, then other associations are violating the statuate here in Ohio as well.

Have a great day. It's time for change here in Ohio and give our girls the same opportunity as girls from other states. NCAA has figured out that "travel prize monies" does not harm our girls... but maybe gives them an opportunity they never would have had before in this economic times.
 
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Good luck with the OHSAA Quakerman. This might be a high mountain to climb.
 
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They might be... but how does that song, "Ain't no mountain high enough". I think the issues will be:

a) paid berths are the same as monetary anything and based on placement in a tournament

b) disparity between girls from other states and Ohio and whether Ohio has that right to continue putting Ohio athletes at a disadvantage at a collegiate level based on their bylaws.

and c) Could the awards of $1500.00 for first and $1000.00 for second place be given as just that : awards and not listed as "travel expense monies" since it DOES fall within the guidelines of OHSAA By-law 4-10-3 and the $200.00 value based on the Association guidelines per student-athlete monetary awards amount.

This is what I have been told.

We still going to give out some great prizes... and change back if we are allowed
 
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Just sent out the letter to Steven Craig, legal counsel of OHSAA. Joe, Wave, Ricky, Roger, Jon, LK... sent you a copy of the letter. I personally think we might be able to word the intended prizes differently.... and fall within the guidelines of OHSAA. Thus, that is my "C" question to the OHSAA attorney.

We shall see. Let's hope so.

Going to go mail it out registered letter to the OHSAA attorney and go to bed. I've been all wound up all night. Wish us luck all. (Ringer: Get that funny ready with me wrestling down the bull and/or dinosaur) We think the loophole is "C".

See everyone online on Saturday morning.
 
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