Question about IFA payouts.

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A thought or two:

Trying to bring down the OHSAA based on prize money issues would be like trying to bring down an elephant with a fly swatter.

The only hope of bringing down the OHSAA would be by getting the state legislature fired up. It might even take Congress since the OHSAA has like organizations in each state.

One thing is certain: The education bureacuracy is not going to do anything. You would be massively wasting your time by going to principals, superintendents and school boards.

You would need such a mass uprising from the public that it would be pretty much impossible to get done as a grass-roots movement. The only hope I see is getting politicians fired up, with some friendly media. The media would be generally friendly to the cause, but they aren't going to lead it.
 
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Just saw your post right above mine. Haven't seen the letter yet. I'll e-mail you after I see it. I assume with "Joe" you meant me, but I'm not the only Joe in town!
 
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Quakerman's dayjob

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It's you, Joe A. We (IFA) seem to think it might be in the wording of "Travel expense monies" and "awards". We would fall under the guidelines of 4-10-3 listing as "awards"

If not, then I will take the next step. Actually a Federal based lawsuit as if I could show Ohio High School By-laws providing a disparity to Ohio student-athletes because of OHSAA bylaws compared to other states... then we might have a case. (Paid a group of legal researchers from a certain university for that thought... funny how far legal students will go in researching for all the pizza and beer they can drink...lol) We await the answer from the OHSAA. The other people are Board Of Directors of OHSAA, Joe. Those are the people I have listed in another post.

Edgeoo: I couldn't forget about you. Fired one to you since you have been a good guy...lol
 
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Wouldn't this argument be the same as a high school golfer who is not permitted to accept any type of prize money or prizes at any golf outings ect.
 
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Wouldn't this argument be the same as a high school golfer who is not permitted to accept any type of prize money or prizes at any golf outings ect.

Good point. I would bet after it is all said and done. The cash prizes will be squashed by the dinosaur and OQM will be swatting the flies off of the elephant's back to no avail. I would even bet the $600 for uniforms is borderline illegal (in OHSAA eyes).

(should I start that thread?);&
 
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No doubt the uniforms are also illegal, this is one of those things that is ok until it comes out in print. Think about it.
 
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No doubt the uniforms are also illegal, this is one of those things that is ok until it comes out in print. Think about it.

So which of you are now going to turn in the teams that received money from the uniform blowouts??;&
 
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Not me, I took an oath of silence. Wouldn't even know who they are.
 
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Well, we now know the OHSAA definitely considers the prize money illegal. It's safe to say uniforms are also illegal.

With the uniforms being against the bylaws, it's kind of comical to think about how many girls have been illegal over the last several years. It's a wonder the sky hasn't fallen.

I really despise these administrative bodies. I'm glad I took some administrative law classes in law school, as my eyes were opened. The problem, which seems to be inherent, is that the nature of people in a rule-making position is to always increase the rules in some effort to find "perfection" and fix every "problem" that arises. As a result, we get weighted down with rules that have no relation to reality and their cumulative effect ends up having a negative effect on the governed. It's the same thing whether it's the OHSAA, NCAA, EPA, FCC, etc. Because our elected officials have turned over great power to these bodies and placed several layers between the rulemakers and taxpayers, accountability becomes non-existent. All in a misguided effort to have government-designated "experts" practically run our lives.
 
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ohioquakerman included my e-mail address in his letter that he sent to the OHSAA and this was sent back via e-mail today. My guess is that it was sent to everyone on the list as well, and there were a number of others on there. Unfortunately it sounds like they are not budging. Hopefully Tim will keep the pressure applied.


The e-mail reads as follows:


Mr. Cleaver:



I am responding to your second request for a ruling from our legal counsel, Mr. Steven Craig. Please be advised that Mr. Craig is not responsible for the interpretation of the bylaws of the OHSAA. Both Ms. Price and I have indicated to you and to Mr. Delawder that providing prize money based on winning or finishing in second place in a tournament, regardless of how the money is to be distributed after the fact, constitutes competing for money. This activity is strictly prohibited in our bylaws. I hope this will answer your inquiry and that you will refrain from this practice.



Best regards,



Debbie



Deborah B. Moore, Ph.D.

Associate Commissioner

Ohio High School Athletic Association

4080 Roselea Place

Columbus, Ohio 43214

Ph: 614-267-2502

Fax: 614-267-1677

dmoore@ohsaa.org
 
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Well, we now know the OHSAA definitely considers the prize money illegal. It's safe to say uniforms are also illegal.

With the uniforms being against the bylaws, it's kind of comical to think about how many girls have been illegal over the last several years. It's a wonder the sky hasn't fallen.

I really despise these administrative bodies. I'm glad I took some administrative law classes in law school, as my eyes were opened. The problem, which seems to be inherent, is that the nature of people in a rule-making position is to always increase the rules in some effort to find "perfection" and fix every "problem" that arises. As a result, we get weighted down with rules that have no relation to reality and their cumulative effect ends up having a negative effect on the governed. It's the same thing whether it's the OHSAA, NCAA, EPA, FCC, etc. Because our elected officials have turned over great power to these bodies and placed several layers between the rulemakers and taxpayers, accountability becomes non-existent. All in a misguided effort to have government-designated "experts" practically run our lives.


maybe thew best post ever on this entire board GOOO JOE !!!!!!
 
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Just curious - How can a player be held to OHSAA rules & regulations after a season has been completed and before a new school year ball season even starts?? Does not that particular high school athlete have to compete in a tryout for the next years school team ?? So - once you make a school team you are on that team regardless of talent until you quit or graduate ?? :confused::confused:

Just who exactly does the OHSAA really try to protect ??
 
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HERE IS MY QUESTION TO OHSAA AND ENTIRE THREAD. THEY DID NOT SAY NO TO CUSTOM SWEAT SUITS OR HOODIES, IF MONEY CAN BE GIVEN THEN OHIOQUAKERMAN WILL LET US ALL KNOW AND I WILL AWARD MONEY PRIZES, I CHANGED THE MARION TOURNAMENTS TO (TBA), IF QUAKERMAN OVERTURNS THEIR DECISION THEN I WILL GO BACK TO MONEY, OTHEWISE, I WILL START A THREAD AS TO WHAT KIDS WOULD LIKE TO PLAY FOR IN THE MARION TOURNAMENTS IN MAY!

Hello Roxanne,
I'm hosting a Travel Tournament for 9 and 10yr olds as well as 11 and 12 yr olds this spring. I am awarding $1000 for First Place and $500 for 2nd place to the winning teams to assist with travel monies for 09 Nationals or 2010 travel expenses. I read one of the rules in OHSAA and I want to make sure I'm not violating anything in regards to kids amature status with OHSAA. Most travel teams budget on average is $5000 for the season they are currently playing in. Please let me know ASAP before I email my tournament out to all the teams here in Ohio, if I cant give team monies back I wont.

Roger:
It is a violation for students who wish to compete for their schools and retain their amateur status to compete for prize money. You will not be able to do this and protect students. Thanks for checking.
Debbie Moore

Roger:
I am not sure whether Dr. Moore responded or not. This is the third email this week we have received regarding travel monies. You cannot award this money based on a team?s finish in the tournament, which is what you have indicated below. It would not be permissible for you to give the first place team and the second place team the money that you indicate.
Roxanne

Not a problem, D. Moore did respond. you can go to www.eteamz.com/midohiobombers and see I've changed the amounts to (TBA). I'm not sure what I will give away, but I know the amount I was willing to give. I may give custom sweat suits to the winner and custom Hooded Sweatshirts for 2nd. Thanks for all the assistance, I will not put kids eligibility at risk and I'm glad I asked.
Thanks again,
Roger

Thanks Roger. We are certainly pleased that you asked as well. Never hesitate to contact us with any questions you might have. We all want to preserve the eligibility of our students. Have a wonderful holiday season.

Best regards,

Debbie

Deborah B. Moore, Ph.D.
Associate Commissioner
Ohio High School Athletic Association
4080 Roselea Place
Columbus, Ohio 43214
Ph: 614-267-2502
Fax: 614-267-1677
dmoore@ohsaa.org
 
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Ringer, I love it. Thanks, as it has brought a smile to my face.

Needless to say, the lady is indeed upset...lol.. but believe me when I say I care not.

I have fired off a response to her again this morning with should make her Monday morning a welcoming morning as she still continues to "dance" around the issue of why some associations can still give out "paid berths" as first place finishes. I continue to include her partners in OHSAA as CC of all correspondence.

The uniforms are not illegal as they are not cash prizes. The cost of a full set of uniforms is figured at XXXX amount of dollars. I have an estimate from a manufacturer that I go by. The people I know, did buy uniforms.

So what is that monetary prize amount? According to their by laws , 4-10-3, it is an amount set by OHSAA administration, to which we see set at $200.00 per student athlete in another by law.

So are trophies and medals illegal as well? There has to be a limit on the amount and I believe that 4-10-3 gives us that amount.

After much reflection last night at home, in life, sometimes you have to take a stand on issues of the heart. I come from a long line of genes that fear not. My great, great grandfather wrote the President asking him to change the names of the week from names of "heathen gods" in 1828. My faith demands me to stand up for my community. Whether it is for a child or an adult.

Governor Strickland and my pastor are friends. Gov Strickland and myself have had many letters back and forth to one another on the issue of making Election Day a "full" state holiday being we, as Americans, wanted to show the people of Iraq the importance of freedom and the right to vote... give our sons and daughters to fight and die for them.. and fail miserably in our own convictions of making election day the sacred day that it is. ( Note: Election Day is a formal Ohio State Holiday from 12:00 Noon to 5:30 p.m.) Don't let any employer tell you differently.

I also sent a copy of said letters to him and to Ms. Brunner, our AG, as well, being she represents the Ohio Legislature and all governing bodies within Ohio.

I do know some of the legislative people from my area and will contact them as well very soon. I talked with the law students that did the research on some issues and they are very interested in making the issue "their class project" so to say. To file Federal action would force the State of the Ohio to look at the issue through the eyes of the Attorney General when it concerns a body falling under their domain.

The issue is whether or not there is a disparity between student-athletes in other states versus Ohio that gives those other state's student-athletes an advantage. IT does as in other states, there are events that give away much, much more prizes monies classified as "travel expense monies". NCAA has realized it... stepped up to understand the needs.... as Ohio continues to be the dinosaur.

A grass roots effort is always a good thing and would be very helpful in this situation. I think a form type thing should be printed up and sent out to the coaches and their parents to where they can pluck the form and e-mail it or send it "snail mail" to the Board of Directors and all included in the e-mail addresses of anyone in a position to make changes.
I will post those e-mail addresses so people can do such a thing. Such as grab a form, and sent it out via e-mail all in one shot to our represenatives, Govenor, AG and OHSAA officals as well as the Board of Directors. Maybe a little pressure on them is what they need to quit feeling they are some high a mighty association that has to answer to no one. Especially, since they are living financially off the backs of our Ohio student athletes and regulate them so they do so. Just my opinion.. but it seems to be the opinion.

It will take coaches to contact other coaches, parents to contact other parents.

I'll get busy with the form and after the holdiays, I should have things set up. I will have an "area box" where a person can add their own opinions as to what they feel needs to be changed with OHSAA. In this electronic world, things are so much simplified for people to be involve and voice their opinions without much effort.

I'll fight for these girls here in Ohio but oviously it takes more than me. We have always said that this softball community is one big happy family ... well it is time for the "family reunion" and stop allowing the OHSAA to overregulate our girls and live off their backs all in one stroke of the pen.
 
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