beware of the softball snakes

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I'm with you Len and I would say people do steal players. If you recruit a player during a season while they are playing on a team you are stealing. Yea it's a two street and the player would have to agree to go but if you enticed them into it you are stealing. Doesn't mater if the reason are valid or contrived

Totally agree.
By the way, nice plank Mandy!

Len

 

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OMG Merlion, that made me laugh until I cried! "Ima sthnake, Ima slithery sthnake" LOL!!!

 

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Today it is more discrete and they use the internet, texting , facebook and other devices and you don't see them talking to the kids. I have actually seen text messages trying to convince a player into changing teams, normally from other players or friends.. The bottom line is what Lady_Knight posted.

 

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After three years in travel ball the parents should know, like in life there are no sure things. I feel bad for the dd but its her parents fault. I would not worry about it and hopfully they will come to tryouts next year she will make the team and other parents will learn by their mistake, and somewhere in the back of your mind you can be saying I told you so.

The big problem is that the parents will not bring her back because it would mean that they would be admitting they made a mistake. Parents foolish pride is a big hurdle.

 

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WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP SAYING THIS. NOBODY CAN STEAL PLAYERS. THEY LEAVE BY THEIR OWN FREE WILL.

It could be time for reflection. They are not leaving for snake oil. They are leaving for something they don't think they are getting with their current team. It could be coaching, playing time, position, chemistry, whatever, a 1000 different reasons. If you really want to get better, call them and ask them to help you get better and ask them to be honest about why they left the team. You may not like what you hear but if you can accept it you'll be better next time.

Yep! No such thing as team hopping (except during the middle of the season). However, burn too many bridges and you might not like your list of choices the older your daughter gets.

 

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I use to think as you do now when I first came into travel, but it can't be any farther from the truth. The best keep getting better year after year as they get older and you just can't field a competitive team against the better/bigger organizations because they keep finding better players athletically and physically. Sooner or later the old adage comes into play..."If you can't beat them...Join them!!" And that is what happens.

Either one of two things will eventually happen....If you coach your DD on a smaller organization you will either try to get on with one of the bigger organizations as a coach and take your team, while trying to "upgrade" or you will just quit coaching and turn her over to another team/coach. If your DD is on one of these smaller teams you will eventually move her to the bigger team, or be left scratching your head late Saturdays or early Sundays as your heading home because your team is one and done!! It comes right back to Darwinism and "Survival of the Fittest." If you want your daughter to be the best she has to play with/against the best!! Good Luck!!!

Lady Knight hit the nail on the head. The only thing I would debate is the notion at the older age groups that its about playing late on Sundays. It's really not, not if your DD has aspiration of playing at her highest possible level in college. Its about playing on a team with players who have similar goals and aspirations (ie wanting to travel to out of state tourneys, wanting to play viritually year round) and who are also highly skilled and attract coaches to watch them play (hopefully like your DD is). And most importantly, its about playing for a coach who views it their primary job to help your DD achieve her fullest potential (skill development) and play at the next level (relationships with coaches). Playing late on Sunday is a by-product of the fact that the players are highly skilled and highly competitive not because they are chasing hardware.

So, if you see players at the 14u and above gravitating to organizations (and I really believe they are gravitating to proven coaches who coach for those organizations) its because of what I described above - not because they are being stollen away.

 

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I guess my question is why can't coaches just post your tryouts on line, in local newspapers, etc. then have the tryouts and pick the best from there and coach them up? Why do you need to be trying to recruit players from other teams? Word of mouth, postings online & newspapers, your players talking to friends isn't enough to ensure the stud players show up at your tryouts then maybe you aren't doing the right things as coaches and in the best interests of your players. I have to believe if you are a good coach, respected by players/parents and you are giving your girls opportunities to grow and play great competition, then great players will show up at your tryouts, right?

 

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Lady Knight hit the nail on the head. The only thing I would debate is the notion at the older age groups that its about playing late on Sundays. It's really not, not if your DD has aspiration of playing at her highest possible level in college. Its about playing on a team with players who have similar goals and aspirations (ie wanting to travel to out of state tourneys, wanting to play viritually year round) and who are also highly skilled and attract coaches to watch them play (hopefully like your DD is). And most importantly, its about playing for a coach who views it their primary job to help your DD achieve her fullest potential (skill development) and play at the next level (relationships with coaches). Playing late on Sunday is a by-product of the fact that the players are highly skilled and highly competitive not because they are chasing hardware.

So, if you see players at the 14u and above gravitating to organizations (and I really believe they are gravitating to proven coaches who coach for those organizations) its because of what I described above - not because they are being stollen away.

I agree.

 

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So, if you see players at the 14u and above gravitating to organizations (and I really believe they are gravitating to proven coaches who coach for those organizations).

That brings up another question: What is it that qualifies a coach as proven?

Is it a coach that has a team full of studs and wins or a coach that MAKES a team full of good players successful and perform as above average?

 

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In criminal law, stealing is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent.

Sorry folks. Players are not property. I have seen it time and again on travel teams. If the kid is a good player the coach tries to control what the athlete does on and off the field. If you lose a player to another team its on the coach or the Org. If the player is a team hopper and you know that going into it and take her because shes a stud and she dumps you for newest and greatest thing in her opinion then again, its on you.

It is select ball and recruiting to get the best players to make the best teams to be there late on sun is just the nature of the beast.


Tim

 

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OK, It's time for some big boy and big girl talk here. Some teams are like A, AA and AAA teams, then you got the major leagues. Sorry but that's how it is. Just like ANYTHING in life, the best need to continually feed from the food chain. I have steady current employment yet I still get recruiters calling me, enticing me with offers. If they are good, I may look. My current employer better be on the ball to retain me or I'm gone. The better you are the more it takes to retain you. If you want major league talent, you better be able to offer more than single A stuff. We all know this is how the world works, whether we want to admit it or not. If you want to sit back and just take what comes to you, well then, enjoy your Sunday afternoons.

Again, this is only applies for late in the season and during open tryouts. Yes I said late in the season. I believe tryouts really start during the last few weeks of the season, when the networking starts to heat up.

Let me ask you all something. You don't need to answer because I already know the answer. Would you want the coaches of UCLA, Arizon, Tennessee, etc. to not try and contact you because they heard you verbally commited to Wittenburg? Would you tell Candrea, sorry, she verbaled to Podunk U?

 

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That brings up another question: What is it that qualifies a coach as proven?

Is it a coach that has a team full of studs and wins or a coach that MAKES a team full of good players successful and perform as above average?

IMHO

At 10, 12 and 13, its both. A coach (and the coaching staff) needs to be able to attract athletes, teach them the game, and win. Success breeds success, unfortunately so does a lack of success.

At 14, 16, and 18 (if your DD wants to play at the next level) its about 'been there done that'. Its about teaching them how to take their game to the next level, how to get recruited and having the respect and relationships with college coaches.

I have experienced it first hand. I coached (with a group of assistant coaches) that by the definition above would have made us proven from ages 9-13 but based on what I know now we weren't prepared beyond that point because we had never done it before.

Luckily for our team and my DD, Glen Widner (non-parent coach) came in to coach the team. Glen has gone through the process with his oldest DD and coached his younger DDs team where virtually all of the players are going on to play softball at the next level. Glen knows the game, but equally if not more importantly he knows the recruiting process. And he is well respected in the college coaching community. All that is still not enough though - he is also a very thoughtful and caring person about every player on the team, he has high expectations and he holds them accountable.

Lastly, just as universities have verying degrees of prestige when you see their name listed on someones resume (ie Harvard) so do softball organizations when it comes to initial reactions when looking at a player profile. There are probably 8-10 orgs in Ohio that Ohio college coaches would routinely recognize, 5-6 of those orgs that are recognizable by midwest college coaches and 1-2 of those orgs that are recognizable nationwide.

So while you don't have to play for a recognizable organization, it certainly doesn't hurt and establishes some instance credibility.

 

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Let me ask you all something. You don't need to answer because I already know the answer. Would you want the coaches of UCLA, Arizon, Tennessee, etc. to not try and contact you because they heard you verbally commited to Wittenburg? Would you tell Candrea, sorry, she verbaled to Podunk U?

Actually, YES! If my dd had already verbally comitted to a coach/school then I would expect her to follow through on her word. I have always preached a little thing called integrity. You are only as good as your word and if you are willing to through that away than so be it. That is exactly what/why we have far more complaint threads now than we do complimentry ones, people have no idea what integrity is. Sure you may so I am full of it, but I assure you that is exactly what I would do. Life is more than this GAME no matter how many T-shirts they print to try and convince people otherwise.

P.S. My cousin is a prof at Wittenberg

 

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Well put I don't think you could have said it any better!

@TheRinger:

I assume your answer is a differently one in open try-out season than when season tryouts are not in session. I totally oppose an coach enticing a player to jump ship mid season, as there are a lot of other girls who get screwed by the jumping. So is that losing team that is now down a player supposed to keep the cycle going by grabbing another player from still lesser teams that have a few really good players? Regular season becomes a huge drama and a series of unjustifiable losses when team poaching has become rampart.

Come try-out season,coaches can go hard after they want. I'd just caution the players who are being wooed by these aggressive coaches that, if the coach also has a history of trying to pick up players in season, you never know whether it is your position for which the aggressive coach will seek a pick-up.

It is just so much more of a civil world when teams put together a certain number of members for one season and make preliminary but not "hard in stone" commitments to those positions BUT when they make the much more important commitment that as a whole team is a whole that will in fact remain hard in stone.

 

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In criminal law, stealing is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent.

Sorry folks. Players are not property. I have seen it time and again on travel teams. If the kid is a good player the coach tries to control what the athlete does on and off the field. If you lose a player to another team its on the coach or the Org. If the player is a team hopper and you know that going into it and take her because shes a stud and she dumps you for newest and greatest thing in her opinion then again, its on you.

It is select ball and recruiting to get the best players to make the best teams to be there late on sun is just the nature of the beast.


Tim

But see I would look at it as one coach stealing from another coach. Once you "commit" to a team you are obligated or contracted to them for the season. You are an asset to that team. If another coach goes after your player who you have contracted they are trying to steal that asset. Doesn't matter that the player went willingly and opted to break their contract, their word. That's another issue.

For my DD, if she was recruited during a season and wanted to go I would ask the coach for a release, if not given she would stick out the year. Now there are some variables that would change that. If the team wasn't or isn't what it was sold to be due to lies or misrepresentations then I would consider the contract broken by them and would be free to move. If the team turned into an unhealthy environment we might have cause to break the contract. It's not all black and white but the general principal would be to honor thy word. I think. ?

 

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THERINGER,"OK, It's time for some big boy and big girl talk here. Some teams are like A, AA and AAA teams, then you got the major leagues. Sorry but that's how it is."

So why do the "Major League Teams" get in tournaments with A, AA, and AAA???

 

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So why do the "Major League Teams" get in tournaments with A, AA, and AAA???

It may be because the support is not there to travel alot out of state. It takes time and money to continually leave the state. Besides, if those major league teams play, granted they'll win, but at least the A, AA, and AAA can gauge themselves to see what improvements need to be made in the off season.

 

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Let me ask you all something. You don't need to answer because I already know the answer. Would you want the coaches of UCLA, Arizon, Tennessee, etc. to not try and contact you because they heard you verbally commited to Wittenburg? Would you tell Candrea, sorry, she verbaled to Podunk U?

Are you okay with UCLA, Arizona, Tennessee, etc. to actually step on to Wittenburg's campus to try to get kids to transfer?

Len

 

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It may be because the support is not there to travel alot out of state. It takes time and money to continually leave the state. Besides, if those major league teams play, granted they'll win, but at least the A, AA, and AAA can gauge themselves to see what improvements need to be made in the off season.

How much gauging do you think can be made when the A, AA, and AAA typically only get 3 innings of play in against the "Major League Teams"?

 

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Tim, How's your summer been. i'm getting ready to take Nicol to school next week. Have you taken Britt to school yet.
With all my free time i was thinking about doing some recruiting for the summer of 2013 roadwarriors 18u. After reading all these interesting posts do you think it will be alright to bring gifts for the players i'm interested in you know like t-shirts,cleats,new gloves etc.

In criminal law, stealing is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent.

Sorry folks. Players are not property. I have seen it time and again on travel teams. If the kid is a good player the coach tries to control what the athlete does on and off the field. If you lose a player to another team its on the coach or the Org. If the player is a team hopper and you know that going into it and take her because shes a stud and she dumps you for newest and greatest thing in her opinion then again, its on you.

It is select ball and recruiting to get the best players to make the best teams to be there late on sun is just the nature of the beast.


Tim