Bretman and Others - Just wondering

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I've decided that I don't have enough stress in my life so I have taken up umpiring. Last night I was behind the plate for my first fastpitch scrimmage and I was working by myself. High School aged players. Here was a situation that I was wondering about:

No chalked lines for batter's box. Batter way up in the box, back foot in front of the plate. I had no issue with her but the catcher also then moved way up so that not only was she nearly on the plate (so seeing the plate became difficult) but it appeared that on an off speed pitch, she nearly reached IN FRONT of the plate to receive the pitch.

So here is my question.....if the catcher, in my judgement, had reached in front of the plate to receive the pitch, and did not interfere with the batter in any way, what would be the call? The ball had not reached the plate so how am I to determine if it was a strike or not? High/low is not the issue but inside/outside would be.

How would this be handled? Is there a rule that addresses it?

 

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Now there's a refreshing thought-provoking question!

And I'm staying away from it...

 

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I think you should move the batter back so she is in the box. I've had umpires redraw the box lines with the bat and tell the batter she is getting too far out front and is not in the box. If they keep moving up than they should be called out for contact out of the box. But in a scrimmage I would think that just redrawing and telling them would keep them in the box.

 

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Well, Bucket welcome to the fraternity ... LOL ...

Great question by the way.

You can draw a line in the front with a bat if no chalk lines... but what I do is take a tape measure and measure the distance of my actual shoe. Then you can heel to toe the measurement.. If it is say 3 1/2 shoes length... I take white out and put a line on the side of my shoe for the extra inches needed for the batter's box length .

Catcher's box and where it begins in the front can be done the same way.

As for the catcher reaching out over the plate... as long as she doesn't interfere.. It is fine.... I understand you are talking she is catching it in the area of on top of the plate, etc... and IF YOU don't feel comfortable about the height of the ball at the plate because of the catcher when it conforms to the strike zone or whether inside or outside... then you should inform her of it.

But, moving the batter back into the box.. moves the cathcer back as well.

I'd address that first and see if that doesn't work for you. If she is catching the ball before the plate and you can't determine it.. it's a ball.


Glad to see you come in as an umpire and doing a one man HS aged scrimmage is a good way to start.... rough way.. but a good way.

 

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Now, you get to get letters like this all the time where associations are looking for umpires. ASA is scrambling this weekend


From: USSSA.Com -- Denny Rose - FP OHN/OHS <droseusssa@bex.net>
Subject: USSSA Columbus, OH USSSA Qualifier
To: ohioquakerman@yahoo.com
Date: Tuesday, May 24, 2011, 8:54 PM


Don McDaniel, Lancaster Ohio UIC is looking for a few USSSA umpires to help work the USSSA tournament at Berliner
Park in Columbus, Ohio May 27-29.
Please contact Don at dmcdaniel80@gmail.com

Thanks,

 

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As clarification...I do not believe the batter was out of the box, drawn or undrawn. Her stance was fairly narrow and she had a relatively short stride. My question is directed at the catcher.....receiving the ball in front of the plate. I know its hypothetical...but how do you call a strike that never makes it to the zone? thanks for your responses!

 

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I'd say, If It never touches any of the white, it would not be a strike.......

 

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I'd say, If It never touches any of the white, it would not be a strike.......

Isn't the black outline of the plate also considered the plate?

 

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Yes, it's part of the plate, but not part of the strike zone.

 

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Yes, it's part of the plate, but not part of the strike zone.

Sammy, just a quick correction. Not supposed to be part of the strike zone.

 

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Sammy, just a quick correction. Not supposed to be part of the strike zone.

:lmao::lmao::lmao: now to educate some of the umpires of that fact.. that's a different story.

But then again, you hear it from coaches that you are calling a "tight strike zone" if you just use the white part.... double edge sword type of thing.

I've always used the white only though. Sadly to say, I Know many that don't though.

"It's all about calling as many strikes as you can" is what I hear

 

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Question-doesn`t the catcher have to start in her box before the release. If this is true is not the catcher in an illegal position to start if she starts practically on the plate. Even in an intentional walk the catcher has to start in the catchers box before every pitch.

 

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Question-doesn`t the catcher have to start in her box before the release. If this is true is not the catcher in an illegal position to start if she starts practically on the plate. Even in an intentional walk the catcher has to start in the catchers box before every pitch.

That they do... but with no line for catcher's box made ... then where does it start?

So now the umpire must draw the beginning of the catcher's box for the catcher.... if so inclined.

 

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The catcher can be anywhere in the catchers box 10' X 8'5", reaching as far as they want to, as long as they start in the box and the glove does not interefere with the batter. It kills me when umps tell them move back....

The strike zone of the plate is ONLY the 17 " of white... Not black edges, Not white of batters box.....

 

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Well I would hope every umpire would know the dimensions of the batters box. Seeing the catcher on the plate they would then know she is not in position. Batters box 7 ft in length with 3 ft in back from the middle of plate and 4 ft forward from middle of plate. 3 ft in width. Front of catchers box would then be the back line of the batters box.

 

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When the batter moves up to the front of the box, the catcher may come forward if she needs to. But she still has to let the ball cross the plate before catching it.

First time it happens, tell the catcher she has to catch the ball behind the plate (That is, of course, assuming that the catcher did not actually obstruct the batter. If she did, then enforce the catcher's obstruction penalty).

If she continues to catch the ball over or in front of the plate, the umpire may call catcher's obstruction.

One of the few places this is addressed is in the ASA Rules Supplement in teh back of the rule book. See R/S #36, Catcher's Obstructiuon: "Should a catcher reach forward, over or in front of home plate, in an attempt to catch the pitched ball, catcher's obstruction may be ruled".

 

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Thanks Brett.... Hey I think your Mitt broke......

 

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This is similar to some questions that I have asked and not yet received a very good answer. Blue will tell me one thing but then call the other.

1. Is the Strike zone established at the entire plate?
2. Is it a 3 dimensional solid established by the corners of the plate?
3. Does it move with the batter?
4. How does the batter influence its location?

If a batter establishes herself at the back of the box. The pitch can come in as a strike at the front of the plate and then drop to the ground before it gets to her knees; her actual strike zone- Is it a ball or strike?

My favorite is that we have a slapper starting out at the back of the box and runs up past the front of the box. Is the strike zone established when the ball and she crosses or is the zone fixed at the plate. A change-up can be over her head at the front of the box and drop through the zone. Most umpires will call it a ball..... Seeming to my view that the strike zone is established by the batter where ever she is when the ball passes through her hitting zone.... with a slapper the dang thing moves with her.....

There is the rules and then there is what they call. What is right?

 

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The strike zone is the " Batters standing height " at the side of the plate.. no matter where she stands in that box or run forward or whatever.....

As an umpire, I have to fix my eyes on her upper strike zone area if she is a slapper running the box which means before she gets in the box I have to judge her knee height because when the pitch comes ..... you are a little above the catcher more in your umpire position on a slapper than normal batter ( so you can get the upper strike zone vision ) .. which means now you are giving me my first decision on your knee height ( when you stepped in the batter's box and I looked ) if a lower pitch comes in and if it does.. I moving down a little bit in my position. They say don't move .. but I do. I am comfortable with doing so.


I feel for you on the change ups on a slapper...LOL... Many umpires don't call that "strike" because of that scenerio of in the front of the box and over her head... but comes through the strike zone at the plate.

 

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Bretman - Couple of questions for you.
1. Is their any documentation for this ruling in the High School Rule book?
2. Since it is worded, catcher's obstruction "may" be called, does that mean umpire's discretion as to whether they feel any "harm" is being done?
3. The high school rule book says that a pitch only has to "enter" the strike zone in flight, therefore if the catcher caught the ball over the plate after it crossed the front part of the plate in the strike zone and there was no swing couuld not this still be a called strike? (in high school?)

Thanks

When the batter moves up to the front of the box, the catcher may come forward if she needs to. But she still has to let the ball cross the plate before catching it.

First time it happens, tell the catcher she has to catch the ball behind the plate (That is, of course, assuming that the catcher did not actually obstruct the batter. If she did, then enforce the catcher's obstruction penalty).

If she continues to catch the ball over or in front of the plate, the umpire may call catcher's obstruction.

One of the few places this is addressed is in the ASA Rules Supplement in teh back of the rule book. See R/S #36, Catcher's Obstructiuon: "Should a catcher reach forward, over or in front of home plate, in an attempt to catch the pitched ball, catcher's obstruction may be ruled".