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10 umpires and all ruled it OK at our ASA tourney this weekend.
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I'm not doubting what you're saying, or saying that your umpires said anything other than what you say they said. 
This is from the ASA website, directly from their national supervisor of umpires, in regards to the new bat rules and devices on the bat's handle:
The definition of the bat handle has also been rewritten and now allows many things that were previously not allowed or considered an altered bat. The question of the choke up attachment or cone shaped grip was previously ruled to be an altered bat is no longer considered an altered bat. These attachments are legal provided they are permanently attached to the bat or attached with safety tape.
The bolded sentence means exactly what it says. "Permanently attached" means that it can't be removed and repositioned. "Safety tape" is, well...safety tape. As an ASA umpire interested in following the letter of the law, I can't really see any wiggle room there.
It wouldn't be the first time that I tried to enforce a rule as written and was told, "But no umpire has ever told us that before!". (In fact, it happened just yesterday over a different issue.) So, because "no other umpire" is doing their job...I get to be "the bad guy" if I do mine.
This is from the ASA website, directly from their national supervisor of umpires, in regards to the new bat rules and devices on the bat's handle:
The definition of the bat handle has also been rewritten and now allows many things that were previously not allowed or considered an altered bat. The question of the choke up attachment or cone shaped grip was previously ruled to be an altered bat is no longer considered an altered bat. These attachments are legal provided they are permanently attached to the bat or attached with safety tape.
The bolded sentence means exactly what it says. "Permanently attached" means that it can't be removed and repositioned. "Safety tape" is, well...safety tape. As an ASA umpire interested in following the letter of the law, I can't really see any wiggle room there.
It wouldn't be the first time that I tried to enforce a rule as written and was told, "But no umpire has ever told us that before!". (In fact, it happened just yesterday over a different issue.) So, because "no other umpire" is doing their job...I get to be "the bad guy" if I do mine.
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Goggle safety tape if you want to open up a can of worms. What is safety tape ? I went to two hardware stores and asked then a sporting goods store. I contacted the ASA to get a response to what is safety tape. None of the attachments are permanent , even if I use ( so called ) safety tape I can take this device off in 10 seconds or less. I carry a roll of tape that Howard and I use for our hitting devices like some have posted, since I have a bat jack for every bat if the kids want one. Just take it off between games as Howard suggested so you are not hitting the same spot on the bat each game.
http://www.findtape.com/category/athletic-tape-rolls-of-sports-tape-stretch-hospital-tape.aspx Just one of many sites that says this is safety tape.
And yes Velcro is listed. http://www.findtape.com/category/velcro-polyester-felt-dual-lock-tapes.aspx
So this really boils down to the Definition of what is called safety tape.
http://www.findtape.com/category/athletic-tape-rolls-of-sports-tape-stretch-hospital-tape.aspx Just one of many sites that says this is safety tape.
And yes Velcro is listed. http://www.findtape.com/category/velcro-polyester-felt-dual-lock-tapes.aspx
So this really boils down to the Definition of what is called safety tape.
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This exactly why I asked what is safety tape! If the umpire says that day and time that X is considered safety tape and umpire Y says it is something else I can adjust HOWEVER it would be nice to know in advance exactly what is safety tape please! This way I can carry a supply of tape that meets each umpires individual opinion that day even if it is ASA, NSA, USSA or ISF.
If you do not know then ask for help so we can at least try to comply with the intent and prepare to meet the letter of the interpretation of the rule please.
Dan have you attempted to contact anyone from ASA?
Maybe I can have Crystl call Ron to help us.
We are not asking for interpretation of the strike zone!, just what is safety tape that can be used to attach the Bat Jack to the bat handle PLeaSSEEEEE!
"These attachments are legal provided they are permanently attached to the bat or attached with safety tape."
Even the bat grip is not permanent as I can remove it and replace it at will and meet the standard.
Thanks Howard
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in ky we just call it duck tape (not duct) lol MD
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Yes I have sent an e mail. They also have a facebook page, I thought I might post on it this question if I don't get a response from my e mail. Howard you hit it on the head. You and I remove bat grips all the time, are they permanent, no. We have played in 3 ASA qualifiers and no one after seeing how they are attached has asked us to use tape. I do carry some tape just in case, that we have used on the PVC hitting sticks and other devices. Not sure it is the so called safety tape, but the stuff you put on steps so you don't fall when your feet are wet is called safety tape and I wouldn't want that on a bat. Yet with a knife you can remove this or anything very quickly.
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I think we are going to hear the words "grip tape" come up soon verses safety tape also.
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Then it will prove the rule is poorly written and anyone can read it and come to a different conclusion, since Safety tape and Permanent can mean many things to many different people. To me Permanent means it can't move on the bat. Bat Jack won't move, when in use. Same as the tape on the handle, but both can come off the bat if you want to take them off. We re-grip bats all the time.
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This thread has become quite entertaining.
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It is difficult to make stuff like this up.
Dr. W. Edwards said at a Quality Control Seminar I attended, "Always put things in measurable and observable terms that reasonable people can agree upon and then how could we test for it."
He was pointing out when making specifications or tolerances that are vague or left up to interpretation. He even said what would you say if someone said you did a good job today and I will give you a 10 percent raise! What did I do good today so I can be good the next day?
Look no further than the posted speed limit such as 65 MPH. It does not say 66 is acceptable however if you know someone in law enforcement you will hear 5 to 10 MPH over is usually where they draw the line dependent upon the drivers license check results.
What is safety tape? What is permanently attached? :lmao:
I have re gripped hundreds of bats over 25 years and they always supply a thin piece of plastic tape that is thinner than electric tape to put over the end of the bat grip. It usually comes off and most people apply the white athletic tape to hold the grip on.
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From the WTH files - a regripped bat was tossed by umpires as an altered bat! The coach asked them if they had to buy a new bat if the grip was worn out and the umpire(s) replied yes.
Even though you can regrip a bat, I think they'd consider anything attached by the safety grip to be 'permanent' (i.e. not easily removed by itself).
As far as 'safety tape' goes, I'd recommend at least carrying the athletic tape that is used for wood bats and hockey sticks.
Even though you can regrip a bat, I think they'd consider anything attached by the safety grip to be 'permanent' (i.e. not easily removed by itself).
As far as 'safety tape' goes, I'd recommend at least carrying the athletic tape that is used for wood bats and hockey sticks.
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OK Bretman and SoCal.... let's read the rule again carefully. It has two distinct interpretations...
These attachments are legal provided they are permanently attached to the bat or attached with safety tape.
It is the old "either or" concepts. It can be attached permanently OR it can be attached with safety tape. The second part of the statement is not a permanant attachment but a temporary one. Tape rarely is permanent.
These attachments are legal provided they are permanently attached to the bat or attached with safety tape.
It is the old "either or" concepts. It can be attached permanently OR it can be attached with safety tape. The second part of the statement is not a permanant attachment but a temporary one. Tape rarely is permanent.
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From the WTH files - a regripped bat was tossed by umpires as an altered bat! The coach asked them if they had to buy a new bat if the grip was worn out and the umpire(s) replied yes.
Even though you can regrip a bat, I think they'd consider anything attached by the safety grip to be 'permanent' (i.e. not easily removed by itself).
As far as 'safety tape' goes, I'd recommend at least carrying the athletic tape that is used for wood bats and hockey sticks.
The hockey tape is sticky on both sides and is a mess unless you put a touch of baby powder on it....whoops that may also be a violation!
This is becoming absurd in my opinion.
I liked the Judge who asked the prosecutor and defense attorney were asked to turn look at the clock on the wall and inform the judge what time it was?
He got two different answers! :lmao:
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First, the rule doesn't say anything about being attached permanently - that was in the other message Bretman paraphrased and later quoted.
Second, I recognized Bretman's paraphrasing ("permanently attached to the bat with safety tape") was not consistent with the "or" in the actual wording and I addressed them separately in my previous post.
I don't need your assistance with comprehending what I read. I think your time would be better spent helping Hitter and SBFamily. :lmao:
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Weak sauce, Hitter.
Regular athletic tape is only sticky on one side and that's all we had when I played hockey in college many, many years ago. Tape that is sticky on both sides is an option for the people that want a sticky grip - just like using pine tar.
It is only absurd because you and SBFamily have made it so.
As far as the device goes, I'm intrigued by it and will probably order one.
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:lmao::lmao::lmao:
You probably have noticed a while ago that there is a "Good 'Ole Boys Club" that rolls around on this forum and believe me when I tell you that they are never wrong no matter what is said or implied. Therefore, you sir, must be incorrect because the lemmings have deemed it so. If you continue you will soon have Bustos, Candrea, Slaught, Enquist, and others of note all up in your a$$.:lmao::lmao:
Len
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Perhaps because some on here always what to make it a personnel attack because no matter what that person posts Len, we all know you don't like Howard. It is obvious to anyone that reads your responses. Why don't we leave the personnel attacks off this forum and post what is best for the kids.
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The network also has girls too Lenny
Any lemmings on Lasers Black or any other team coming out here for Premier? I'd like to find out more about your key concepts and drills.
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I think someone has spiked the data base and we are all losing our minds , some virus that comes thru the keyboard and destroys the logical leaning brain cells. LOL MD
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