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If I understand softball rules correctly there is no such thing as a balk in fastpitch softball only an illegal pitch. Can someone please expain the rule so I will be able to explain the difference to people on our team.
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http://www.playnsa.com/pdfs/NSA_Rule_Book_2009.pdf Page 29 or 39. Sorry I cannot cut and paste it for you. The NSA rule book is on line and almost word for word with the ASA rule book. You are correct no such thing as a Balk.
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Pages 29 and 39 are in the slowpitch section. Go to page 110 for the fastpitch rules.
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Thanks, couldn't recall what page. Looks like the penality is the same.
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An IP is a delayed dead ball penalty. I don't umpire any baseball but I'm pretty sure a balk is an immediate dead ball. The delayed dead ball means, the playing action continues until the play ends or the ball becomes dead by rule. The offensive team then gets the option of taking the result of the play or the penalty for the IP.
Example...R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st. 2-2 count on B3 with 1 outs. During the wind-up, the BU calls an IP on the pitcher. The pitch is delivered and (a) B3 swings and misses, (b) B3 singles, R1 scores and R2 gets to 2nd, (c) B3 hits the pitch to the fence scoring 2 but gets thrown out at 3rd, (d) the pitch is wild and goes to the backstop advance both runners one base or (e) R1 is called for leaving 2nd early.
a. The PU should call dead ball, give the coach the option of B3 striking out or having the pitch called a ball and advancing both runners.
b. The IP is ignored as both runners advanced one base.
c. Same as b.
d. Same as b.
e. The IP is ignored and R1 is out.
Example...R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st. 2-2 count on B3 with 1 outs. During the wind-up, the BU calls an IP on the pitcher. The pitch is delivered and (a) B3 swings and misses, (b) B3 singles, R1 scores and R2 gets to 2nd, (c) B3 hits the pitch to the fence scoring 2 but gets thrown out at 3rd, (d) the pitch is wild and goes to the backstop advance both runners one base or (e) R1 is called for leaving 2nd early.
a. The PU should call dead ball, give the coach the option of B3 striking out or having the pitch called a ball and advancing both runners.
b. The IP is ignored as both runners advanced one base.
c. Same as b.
d. Same as b.
e. The IP is ignored and R1 is out.
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Yes, balks are for baseball only!
Matt gave a good account of an illegal pitch in softball, so I'll give a description of a balk in baseball, so you can contrast the two rules.
In baseball, you do have illegal pitches. An illegal pitch with no runners on base results in a ball being added to the batter's count. An illegal pitch with runners on base is a balk. The penalty is that all base runners are awarded one base. No ball is added to the batter's count.
An illegal pitch/balk is an immediate dead ball ONLY in high school baseball. In high school baseball, the pitch cannot be hit and runners may not advance. The only option is to enforce the balk penalty and award each runner one base. The batter stays at the plate with the same count as before the balk occured.
All other codes (Little League, Pony, NCAA, Major League, etc.) keep the ball live on a balk, and the pitch may be batted into play. For all codes except high school:
If the pitch is not batted into play on a balk, or the batter does not become a batter-runner (uncaught third strike, hit batter, base on balls), then the one base award is enforced for all runners. The pitch does not count (it is neither a ball or a strike and the batter remains at bat with the same count).
If the pitch is batted into play on a balk, or the batter becomes a batter-runner, then two different things can happen.
If the batter does not safely reach first base AND each runner does not advance safely one base, then the balk penalty is enforced. All runners are awarded one base.
If the batter does safely advance to first base AND all runners safely advace at least one base, then the balk is cancelled and the result of the play stands.
You can see these rules are kind of the same...but different!
Matt gave a good account of an illegal pitch in softball, so I'll give a description of a balk in baseball, so you can contrast the two rules.
In baseball, you do have illegal pitches. An illegal pitch with no runners on base results in a ball being added to the batter's count. An illegal pitch with runners on base is a balk. The penalty is that all base runners are awarded one base. No ball is added to the batter's count.
An illegal pitch/balk is an immediate dead ball ONLY in high school baseball. In high school baseball, the pitch cannot be hit and runners may not advance. The only option is to enforce the balk penalty and award each runner one base. The batter stays at the plate with the same count as before the balk occured.
All other codes (Little League, Pony, NCAA, Major League, etc.) keep the ball live on a balk, and the pitch may be batted into play. For all codes except high school:
If the pitch is not batted into play on a balk, or the batter does not become a batter-runner (uncaught third strike, hit batter, base on balls), then the one base award is enforced for all runners. The pitch does not count (it is neither a ball or a strike and the batter remains at bat with the same count).
If the pitch is batted into play on a balk, or the batter becomes a batter-runner, then two different things can happen.
If the batter does not safely reach first base AND each runner does not advance safely one base, then the balk penalty is enforced. All runners are awarded one base.
If the batter does safely advance to first base AND all runners safely advace at least one base, then the balk is cancelled and the result of the play stands.
You can see these rules are kind of the same...but different!
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The intent of both are the same. The pitcher did something they were not supposed to do in the windup or delivery, the enforcement is where the difference occurs.
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That is a good way of putting it!
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ok bretman, question for you. How hard is it to see the IP and then call it before the batter swings with the 1/2 sec it takes the pitcher to deliver the ball to the catcher......is this why IP 's are rarely called
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Some violations are easy to see because they're so obvious or happen prior to the pitcher's delivery (like, licking fingers and not wiping off, not having the hands separated or not bringing them together prior to the pitch, the pitcher taking a big step forward with the pivot foot before the pitch).
Others are really hard to see, especially if the infraction is a tiny one, it lasts for only a fraction of a second and it happens during the phase of the delivery where your attention must be focused on where the ball is crossing the plate (like, the pivot foot leaving the ground or the pitcher's plate by an inch or two).
In the latter case, the umpre really should never "guess" at a violation (or any other call on the field, for that matter). Unless he is CERTAIN that an illegal pitch has occured, he should not be calling one. That makes the tiny, quick infractions that happen while you're focused on the "ball/strike" call less likely to be called.
A couple of other things that might contribute to illegal pitches not being called:
- This call is almost always a controversial one. Call it, and you usually have a mad coach and an upset pitcher to deal with. This delays the game, forces to umpire to explain the call and deal with an angry coach.
I'm not saying that is a valid reason to not call it if you see it, but from a human nature standpoint some umpires are not comfortable dealing with angry coaches or handling controversy and might shy away from making the call.
- Either the umpire or the coach might not be completely sure of the rule. Some umpires might not realize something is illegal, so he doesn't make the call. Some coaches might see something they think is illegal, when it is not, and wonder why the call isn't being made.
Others are really hard to see, especially if the infraction is a tiny one, it lasts for only a fraction of a second and it happens during the phase of the delivery where your attention must be focused on where the ball is crossing the plate (like, the pivot foot leaving the ground or the pitcher's plate by an inch or two).
In the latter case, the umpre really should never "guess" at a violation (or any other call on the field, for that matter). Unless he is CERTAIN that an illegal pitch has occured, he should not be calling one. That makes the tiny, quick infractions that happen while you're focused on the "ball/strike" call less likely to be called.
A couple of other things that might contribute to illegal pitches not being called:
- This call is almost always a controversial one. Call it, and you usually have a mad coach and an upset pitcher to deal with. This delays the game, forces to umpire to explain the call and deal with an angry coach.
I'm not saying that is a valid reason to not call it if you see it, but from a human nature standpoint some umpires are not comfortable dealing with angry coaches or handling controversy and might shy away from making the call.
- Either the umpire or the coach might not be completely sure of the rule. Some umpires might not realize something is illegal, so he doesn't make the call. Some coaches might see something they think is illegal, when it is not, and wonder why the call isn't being made.
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We were in a 2-2 game with my dd pitching and the other team had a runner on 3rd when plate ump calls illegal pitch. She took her hands apart after they were together. She told blue she stepped off the rubber, but he said that wasn't what he saw. We lost 3-2. Should the plate ump make that call if he can't see the rubber? I was behind the back stop and the rubber seemed to be in a hole.
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In high school ball isnt it just called a ball with no advancement of players on base?
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I have been watching a lot of college softball on TV (thanks DVR!). I find it quite funny that most of the commentators refer to the IP as a "balk." It's to the point where it becomes annoying b/c there is no such thing in softball. I could fully understand if they were newbie coaches, new to fastpitch, etc. BUT these are ex-players calling games and it's just awful having to listen to. They should know better and refer to it properly. Mostly this occurs on the BIG 10 network. CBS College channel does a much better job.
Sorry - that's my rant of the day, lol.
Sorry - that's my rant of the day, lol.
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Chico,
All runners should be awarded one base in high school softball. This rule is pretty much universal for all softball sanctioning bodies.
There are a few infractions by the pitcher that are called a "no pitch", where runners can't advance and the pitch is cancelled (neither a ball or strike), like a "quick pitch" where the pitch is thrown before the batter is ready or before runners have a chance to return to their bases.
If a pitch slips from the pitcher's hand and rolls on the ground (in any direction) and the batter doesn't swing at it (if it reaches the plate) then that is just a ball to the batter.
If the pitcher doesn't pitch within 20 seconds of receiving the ball, that is just a ball on the batter.
Steelers,
A pitcher that wants to terminate the pitching delivery must step backwards off the rubber, with either foot. A step forward or sideways is an illegal pitch.
A backward step should be fairly obvious to the plate umpire. If the plate can't be seen well, because of a hole or being covered with dirt, the backward step should still be obvious, and the umpire should give every benefit of the doubt to the pitcher that she did break contact with the rubber.
All runners should be awarded one base in high school softball. This rule is pretty much universal for all softball sanctioning bodies.
There are a few infractions by the pitcher that are called a "no pitch", where runners can't advance and the pitch is cancelled (neither a ball or strike), like a "quick pitch" where the pitch is thrown before the batter is ready or before runners have a chance to return to their bases.
If a pitch slips from the pitcher's hand and rolls on the ground (in any direction) and the batter doesn't swing at it (if it reaches the plate) then that is just a ball to the batter.
If the pitcher doesn't pitch within 20 seconds of receiving the ball, that is just a ball on the batter.
Steelers,
A pitcher that wants to terminate the pitching delivery must step backwards off the rubber, with either foot. A step forward or sideways is an illegal pitch.
A backward step should be fairly obvious to the plate umpire. If the plate can't be seen well, because of a hole or being covered with dirt, the backward step should still be obvious, and the umpire should give every benefit of the doubt to the pitcher that she did break contact with the rubber.
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I heard one of these former players perpetuate the "hands are part of the bat" myth. I think it was a former NW pitcher.
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Yuck!
I've heard that one at least three or four times this spring on televised college softball games.
I've heard that one at least three or four times this spring on televised college softball games.
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Thanks for clearing that up bretman.
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Bretman - if a ball "slips" from the pitchers on delivery and the ball is rolling on the ground toward the plate are the runners on base free to advance at their own risk? Had this happen in a game over the weekend and the umps made the runners go back.
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Provided the delivery was legal it is just a live ball. A ball that slips out of a pitcher's hand during the motion is not, in and of itself, illegal.
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Yep- the ball remains live and runners can advance.
If the ball is rolling any direction besides toward the plate, that's a pretty simple rule. If the ball is rolling toward the plate, it gets more complicated!
The batter is still allowed to legally bat this pitch (it's still a pitch, just like any other, albeit a bad pitch). If the catcher (or any other fielder) runs out in front of the plate and grabs the ball before the batter has an opportunity to hit the pitch, that is obstruction against the batter.
The obstruction penalty in this case is that the ball is dead, the batter is awarded first base and any runners are moved up if forced by the base award.
If there is a runner on third attempting to steal home or a squeeze play when the batter is obstructed, then that runner is awarded home.
If the ball is rolling any direction besides toward the plate, that's a pretty simple rule. If the ball is rolling toward the plate, it gets more complicated!
The batter is still allowed to legally bat this pitch (it's still a pitch, just like any other, albeit a bad pitch). If the catcher (or any other fielder) runs out in front of the plate and grabs the ball before the batter has an opportunity to hit the pitch, that is obstruction against the batter.
The obstruction penalty in this case is that the ball is dead, the batter is awarded first base and any runners are moved up if forced by the base award.
If there is a runner on third attempting to steal home or a squeeze play when the batter is obstructed, then that runner is awarded home.
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