Is this common or bush league?

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Just to give a little background - I am new to the travel fastpitch, coming from baseball where I played and coached for 13 years, but have been lurking and enjoying this forum for months now. My dd's community based 10U "travel" team coach from last season moved on so I took over the team with 5 girls coming back. We had a tryout and added 7 girls from our rec league. We will be competitive in our league, but I want to show the girls that there is much more out there so we played in the Parma tournament this weekend. To say we were outclassed at the beginning is an understatement. We played the diamonchix and spirit in our first two games - some start to travel ball for my girls as they finished first and second. Anyway, our third game is where my question comes from.

We were playing **** **** **** and actually had a lead when their coach had a girl move all the way to the back of the batters box and show bunt by putting the bat back and directly in front of my catcher's eyes. PLaying on a baseball field with a deep backstop allowed the runner from third to score and two others to move up. In my baseball past, that batter would get one in the back. Is that an accepted thing to do in 10U? Is this bush or what I should expect when we are playing tournament teams? I asked the umpire if it could be batter's interference, but he said contact had to be made, which there was not. What do all of you think?

 

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That's bush and you won't see much of it .. I have not seen it in 3 years of coaching Travel ball... I do instruct our hitters on 3-0 counts to rapidly square to bunt at a point during the pitchers delivery - but only from their normal stance and position in the box. We often bunt on 3-0 counts - most teams infield expect a 'take' and relax... it catches them off guard.

 

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Well Kned44 since this being your first post, we'll have to lay some OFC odds on how long the team name you called out will stay un-blocked. Anyway, was it obvious that she was trying to block the catcher's eyes with her bat to cause a pass-ball? I've never seen this before. I would vote for bush league and it reeks of desperation. How close was she to the catchers mask? The bats are only 2 1/4", the catcher should be able to move to see over or under the bat. Again, I did not see this happened so it just sounds strange to me.

 

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Are you sure they were doing this intentionally?

 

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If they were intentionally doing it, then it was bush. Just teach your catcher how to change eye level (just by moving the neck) so if it happens next time you'll be ready.

Len

 

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It was VERY clearly intentional. My pitcher does not throw as hard as the other tournament pitchers, but does a good job of keeping the ball down. Every one of their batters was toward the front of the box, including this one in her previous at bat. Her bat was a close to my catcher's eyes as she could get it without tapping her on the facemask. Like the rest of us, I am sure my catcher was taken by surprise.

 

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I see batter's fake bunt on a steal and pull it straight back toward the catcher all the time at 10u. It distracts the catcher and keeps them back allowing a slight advantage to the base runner. I have not seen it done in hopes of getting a pass ball.

 

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kned --I apologize for laughing but the ol baseball mentality just struck me as funny. "give one in the back" Next thing you know you are on CNN as "parent gone mad" .

Yes I say total bushleague --I've never seen that happen in 3 years . sadly some folks can't accept losing. I don't like it but someone beats you fair and square you just have to work harder, work smarter , and move on. Glad you are posting on here , we need new faces. MD

 

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I deleted the team's name.

With you being new here you probably don't know that we generally do not allow teams to be named in this type of post. Your post is a good one and will lead to some good discussions but we try to avoid two teams going head to head on OFC.

Anyway, welcome to OFC. We hope this will be a good source of information for you and your team.

 

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to directly answer a question you ask --Never , ever, under any circumstances even acknowledge you would consider directing a girl to hit a girl. Boys and their dads can deal with that. Girls and their Dads can't. I lost 2 nights sleep debating whether some girl hit my kid in a middle school tourney 2 weeks ago. AND THE PITCHER AND MY KID PLAYED TRAVEL BALL TOGETHER !!!!! The things that passed between my ears were not productive thoughts . MD

 

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KY25, i used to teach that in baseball, but when our hitter pivoted, the bat was out in front like they at least gave the impression of a bunt. Where the bat went right from the beginning is the biggest reason I asked the question. I apologize for using the team name, but I lost a great deal of respect for that coach. He is a tournament team with kids from multiple cities and we are all from one small Cleveland suburb. We had a lead when this happened and ended up losing it that inning. Definitely a learning experience for our girls- I mean the tournament in general, not this particular issue.

 

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I actually saw a 10U team take it one step further at the N$A Nationals last year. Bottom of the 7th, 2 outs and a runner on third. Coach calls time out and conferences with the batter. The first pitch the batter fakes a bunt attempt while "falling" across the plate stepping directly in front of the catcher for a split second. The runner broke on the release, passed ball, game over.

 

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kned44: Welcome to fastpitch, and to the frustration you will go through on these matters. I also think it is bush, but I have found over the years that fastpitch is well behind baseball in upholding customs and traditions. As a result, many coaches don't understand that certain things are bush.

Assuming you aren't going to order kids to hit other kids with a pitch, it leaves you in a quandary. About the only thing you can do is to teach your own team what is bush, what isn't, and why certain things are bush. It comes down to customs that have developed over the years. The other thing to do is to coach around the bush league nonsense that other teams pull. In your case with the bunter, you'll just have to work on the catchers catching pitches with a bat being held in front of their eyes.

You will see teams having their runners on second waving frantically to the batter as to the catcher's location. Those of us who played ball know that will get a hitter drilled in baseball - and in college softball - but it's done all the time in youth softball. You can coach around it by telling the catcher to set up one way and then switch as the pitcher is winding up, and telling the umpire beforehand what the other team is doing and that you are going to change your setup position at the last minute as a result. There are other examples, but you'll need to get used to this type of thing, unfortunately.

 

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I actually saw a 10U team take it one step further at the N$A Nationals last year. Bottom of the 7th, 2 outs and a runner on third. Coach calls time out and conferences with the batter. The first pitch the batter fakes a bunt attempt while "falling" across the plate stepping directly in front of the catcher for a split second. The runner broke on the release, passed ball, game over.

A good ump will call batter interference on that, giving every benefit of the doubt to the defense.

 

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As an umpire, if I judge that the batter is purposely positioning her bat to impede the catcher, rather than as part of some real effort to contact the pitch, then I would have no problem calling batter interference.

I might even have a chat with the offensive team's coach to let him know that if I judge this to be a coached strategy he may not be sticking around to enjoy the rest of the ballgame.

And, no, despite what the umpire told you contact is not a requirement for interference.

This is one of those things were you need to nip it in the bud. You can see the path this thread is taking, with thoughts of "making the batter pay for it". That is exactly the sort of escalation you want to head off on the field by quickly addressing these kind of shady tactics.

As a coach, I would remind you that when the batter sets up deep in the box, your catcher has every right to move back a little bit. The catcher's box extends back from the batter's boxes ten feet. There's a lot of real estate back there- use it to your advantage!

Just moving back a little bit solves this problem, plus makes it that much more obvious if the batter is sticking her bat back there to disrupt the catcher.

 

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Going a little off topic here. The cathcer does have the right unless the umpire takes it away. My DD is a cathcer obviously. She had an umpire draw two lines after she got in her set position to her righ and left side.
He told her that if she moved outside the lines that it would be called a ball. How about that one. :yahoo:

 

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Thank you for all of the responses. I would never have a 10 year old girl throw at another. That is college/pro baseball "justice" and I am not at that level any more. I have really been enjoying the change to the girls. I have already seen a tremendous amount of things by coaches and players that you just don't do in baseball. Most just make me chuckle. This one made me steam. I'm over it, just surprised at the lengths some coaches will go to win a 10U softball game.

 

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hey jonnies, lets come up with some kind of "national treasure/lara croft/da vinci code" encrypted post-type to keep the "names" on the post, and only those people with "addicted/ludacris/plaid" status can view the names..whaddya say?

 

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I agree

 

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Come on Ned, we all know the college scouts are sitting in the wings waiting to scoop up those ten year olds......