It's time to quit complaining and to do something about it

[Passion4theGame]

its not that I don't believe in personal choice.. but putting this choice into a minors hands?? really?? Louuuu sorry I disagreed with you on this but I stand firm on this issue. With the bats nowadays it a very dangerous sport. Pitchers throwing harder and faster every year and the technology of the bats these girls are using is insane! Think about how fast that 55-57mph fastball from 40ft is coming back at the corners or the pitcher. Sorry I was unaware your daughter played and graduated college. Good for her. I hope she enjoyed every minute of playtime she had and cherishes the memories.

Crystlemc I agree with you, the mask is part of the uniform. You mandated it when she was young and now she knows its part of the uniform. Its what she was taught. I just wish ALL Parents would be smart like you and make a stand on this.
I have already put a challenge out there to all the coaches but I guarantee they will not make the mask part of their uniform because they don't want to deal with parents grumbling about it.

On another safety issue, how many of us have seen players at batting stations not wearing a batting helmet when they are feeding the T or working on their steps of their swing? Not our team. Safety is #1. Our girls know the helmet only comes off during water breaks.





Jeff Hill
KAOS Fastpitch '04

 

[jdcii]

This is 'Merica not Russia. Educate instead of legislate. Not sure we need to legislate good common sense parenting. If your parents are too stupid to make their kid wear a mask in the more dangerous positions, then so be it. I always encouraged but never made it mandatory.

 

[mwaddell]

We have one pitcher who has not worn an mask. However about 3 weeks ago I saw a video posted on this site of a high school girl pitcher who was hit in the face with a ball and knocked her down and knocked the mask off. It was scary and difficult to watch. Thankfully the girl was fine. Without the mask a tragedy would have occurred. We shared video with our pitcher's parents and she is now wearing a mask.

I shared the video that you referenced, & that was my daughter in the video. I posted it to create more awareness, so glad it got at least one pitcher to wear a mask.

 

[coachjwb]

Good discussion and debate. While I greatly respect and almost always agree with the posts and opinions of Daboss, Louuuu, and Crystle, and I understand their viewpoints here, I have to disagree on this one. This to me is not a matter of personal liberty, it is a child safety issue. And we're not talking about the government getting involved, we're talking about the sanctioning bodies being responsible to put into place the rules that will keep their sport as safe as possible, especially for children. Sorry, but I don't trust all parents to do their best to keep their kids relatively safe, and sometimes it takes a community.

Like Louuuu, my daughter also played college ball ... she pitched almost 500 innings in college, and she too never wore a mask. She was fortunate to never get hit in the face or head. But I can tell you that I personally saw her save her face or head at least a dozen times over her career, and some of those memories are still very vivid in my mind, while other memories have faded. I didn't talk with her about it a lot, and she never had any idea how much I worried about her getting hit. Face masks were far less prevalent and "accepted" then as they are today. Plus I knew she wasn't going to wear one because she had never wore one, and because she wouldn't have wanted to be seen as a "sissy" compared to the other players she played with and against. I know that today, as a pitching coach, she stresses the importance of masks to all of her students.

There was a time when batters didn't wear helmets, when football players didn't wear the kinds of helmets they do today, and when hockey players didn't wear masks. And if we just let everyone exercise their personal liberty, you can be sure that some wouldn't wear them today. And if football players in high school had to worry about college coaches possibly not being interested in them because they didn't wear a helmet in high school, they wouldn't and some of their parents wouldn't make them.

This game is unique ... the distances are close, the bats are hot, and we're all a lot more knowledgeable today than we used to be about head injuries. It's time for those of us who feel strongly about it to at least try to do what's best for the children and for our sport.

 

[jdcii]

Good discussion and debate. While I greatly respect and almost always agree with the posts and opinions of Daboss, Louuuu, and Crystle, and I understand their viewpoints here, I have to disagree on this one. This to me is not a matter of personal liberty, it is a child safety issue. And we're not talking about the government getting involved, we're talking about the sanctioning bodies being responsible to put into place the rules that will keep their sport as safe as possible, especially for children.

Come on Jeff, No one said the government is involved although, with this mind set why stop at sanctioning bodies. If a sanctioning body puts this into the rules, it is still legislation.

Sorry, but I don't trust all parents to do their best to keep their kids relatively safe, and sometimes it takes a community.

This statement is full of arrogance. You don't trust the parents to make good decisions for their own children? Educate!!! Why stop at the facemask? Have you heard of a kid taking a shot in the chest and it stopping their heart immediately? Everyone should wear heart guards. Metal cleats have been known to tear some skin. What shall we do there? I've seen outfielders miss a ball completely and the ball hits them in the head, should they wear hard hats? Should we mandate sliders so the girls don't get strawberries when they slide? What about playing inside on turf? It's known for knee injuries. It's going too far. Manufacturers now have rules in place that bats can only have "X" exit speed and the balls are being made differently. There are risks to this game and any other game for that matter.

As I stated before, I am a proponent of the face mask and think you are stupid if your kid doesn't wear one in the circle or at the corners. If you want to make the rule within your own team, so be it. A sanctioning body should not legislate this.

 

[BulldawgsDirector]

I support this initiative fully. The tough girl non sense has to go, safety first.

 

[wow]

This is 'Merica not Russia. Educate instead of legislate. Not sure we need to legislate good common sense parenting. If your parents are too stupid to make their kid wear a mask in the more dangerous positions, then so be it. I always encouraged but never made it mandatory.

I tend to agree with this assessment, when it comes to the federal government, however this is softball and the game is evolving, the bats are HOTTER than ever. Kids are stronger from the left and if you're at third base your likely creeping. Pitchers and corners should be mandated, Everyone else I get and agree with your posting. The reality is sometimes that is the role of the sanctioning body to protect the players from themselves. If the parents are not educated, they wont know what to do to protect their kids.

Parents don't always know what's best. Sometimes its not stupidity, but like you stated, lack of education.

 

[coachjwb]

John ... I respect your opinion as well, but I have never been called arrogant in my life that I can remember and certainly don't think this statement is arrogance either.

You say yourself that a parent is stupid if their kid doesn't wear one. I'm saying two things here ... one is that it just crushes me when I see stupid parents put their kids in harm's way, and unfortunately it seems like there's a story about that on the news every day, and you have to forgive me for wanting to help all of those kids, but I usually can't but maybe I can here. The second is that there comes a point in many teenagers' lives where their parents can't make them do things. I am really glad your daughter wears one, and I wish my daughter had. Maybe that makes you a better parent than I was, or maybe that your DD is smarter than mine was ... or maybe, your daughter would change her mind at some point about wanting to wear one because she was worried that a college coach or her teammates would frown on it. (I know your DD is plenty good enough to play in college, but last I heard from Crystle it didn't sound like she was planning to do that.)

It all comes down to a matter of drawing a line on what is safe enough and what is not, doesn't it? Does anyone here think that OHSAA or the NCAA should not sanction the use of football helmets? Probably not. Does anyone here think that metal cleats should be banned in the game at the upper age levels? Probably some, but not many and not me. Face masks for pitchers and corners probably stands somewhere in the middle, but much closer for me to football helmets. A batted ball to the face could kill and/or permanently disfigure a beautiful face and probably forever change their lives and their self-confidence. I think it has to be sanctioned. We can agree to disagree.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

John ... I respect your opinion as well, but I have never been called arrogant in my life that I can remember and certainly don't think this statement is arrogance either.

You say yourself that a parent is stupid if their kid doesn't wear one. I'm saying two things here ... one is that it just crushes me when I see stupid parents put their kids in harm's way, and unfortunately it seems like there's a story about that on the news every day, and you have to forgive me for wanting to help them. The second is that there comes a point in many teenagers' lives where their parents can't make them do things. I am really glad your daughter wears one, and I wish my daughter had. Maybe that makes you a better parent than I was, or maybe that your DD is smarter than mine was ... or maybe, your daughter would change her mind at some point about wanting to wear one because she was worried that a college coach or her teammates would frown on it. (I know your DD is plenty good enough to play in college, but last I heard from Crystle it didn't sound like she was planning to do that.)

It all comes down to a matter of drawing a line on what is safe enough and what is not, doesn't it? Does anyone here think that OHSAA or the NCAA should not sanction the use of football helmets? Probably not. Does anyone here think that metal cleats should be banned in the game at the upper age levels? Probably some, but not many and not me. Face masks for pitchers and corners probably stands somewhere in the middle, but much closer for me to football helmets. A batted ball to the face could kill and/or permanently disfigure a beautiful face and probably forever change their lives and their self-confidence. I think it has to be sanctioned. We can agree to disagree.

Jeff - I am very much a Libertarian and I in NO WAY want to see goverment mandates on softball equipment - BUT ... I have no problem with NCAA, OHSA, PIAA, ASA, NSA USSSA or what ever group or organization mandating what ever they deem to be safe -Heck they mandate* chin straps for the love of Pete
Right now I don't think companys like Schutt and Rip-It want to spend the money to have there equipment pass a stanerdized testing if it's not required. So if the sanctioning bodies require masks that will create an open market for mask makers and force them to standerdize their testing.

The down side is masks will be safer and universal but more expensive.

*NOTE: SEE POST#51 and #52

 

[jdcii]

Jeff, I didn't call you arrogant, nor should you consider my post as an attack. Debates are the wonderful thing about a free society. I said the statement was full of arrogance, in the fact that statement states that you know what is best for other people's kids.

When it comes to a kid worrying about a college coach looking at them, that is a cultural issue. Do the coaches really frown on them wearing masks? I see more girls in college wearing the mask in the circle. This is where I am a proponent of education rather than legislation. If you get the college coaches to openly say they have no issue with them wearing a mask than you've eliminated that obstacle. I know your intentions are pure of heart.

Comparing football to softball is like apples to oranges. Contact in football is every single play. How many games have you been to and personally seen someone take it off of the face or head? I'm not talking about that you heard about it or saw it on a video. I'm asking that you have witnessed seeing yourself. Then ask herself how many games have you seen in person over the years and the amount of plays in a game. We are talking about a statistic that is ~.25% at the most. You have to change the culture thru education.

I will agree that a female getting hit in the face and having scarring or disfigurement from the accident will have grave psychological ramifications.

 

[BulldawgsDirector]

Side note- they no longer mandate chin straps as of January '16

 

[cobb_of_fury]

Side note- they no longer mandate chin straps as of January '16

You got me on that - I should have known someone on here would spot that.
Thought of that after I typed it but the line was to good to waste just because it was no longer true (kind of like politiacal speeches)

In your head edit the line to read They HAD Mandated Chinstraps...

 

[Pacerdad57]

Good discussion and debate. While I greatly respect and almost always agree with the posts and opinions of Daboss, Louuuu, and Crystle, and I understand their viewpoints here, I have to disagree on this one. This to me is not a matter of personal liberty, it is a child safety issue. And we're not talking about the government getting involved, we're talking about the sanctioning bodies being responsible to put into place the rules that will keep their sport as safe as possible, especially for children. Sorry, but I don't trust all parents to do their best to keep their kids relatively safe, and sometimes it takes a community.

Like Louuuu, my daughter also played college ball ... she pitched almost 500 innings in college, and she too never wore a mask. She was fortunate to never get hit in the face or head. But I can tell you that I personally saw her save her face or head at least a dozen times over her career, and some of those memories are still very vivid in my mind, while other memories have faded. I didn't talk with her about it a lot, and she never had any idea how much I worried about her getting hit. Face masks were far less prevalent and "accepted" then as they are today. Plus I knew she wasn't going to wear one because she had never wore one, and because she wouldn't have wanted to be seen as a "sissy" compared to the other players she played with and against. I know that today, as a pitching coach, she stresses the importance of masks to all of her students.

There was a time when batters didn't wear helmets, when football players didn't wear the kinds of helmets they do today, and when hockey players didn't wear masks. And if we just let everyone exercise their personal liberty, you can be sure that some wouldn't wear them today. And if football players in high school had to worry about college coaches possibly not being interested in them because they didn't wear a helmet in high school, they wouldn't and some of their parents wouldn't make them.

This game is unique ... the distances are close, the bats are hot, and we're all a lot more knowledgeable today than we used to be about head injuries. It's time for those of us who feel strongly about it to at least try to do what's best for the children and for our sport.

Absolutely great comments Jeff

 

[Pacerdad57]

This is not a matter of involving any government at any level, other than the governing that any sanctioning body has over their group and teams involved in their tournies. You cannot say that it's just a matter of parents choosing after being educated. Not all parents are educable in all things, I know I certainly would fight some things too, but this is certainly not one of them. Take a look at smoking for instance. It has proven to be a known carcinogen,
But adults still smoke! There are some parents that just are not reachable about the preventable injuries that a mask can help with. The attitude of "weak" or sissy players using masks still exists. And you can count the number of major college pitchers that wear masks on one hand, so I'm not buying that the college system is rapidly changing nor are the reasons you still see the majority of college players playing without.
Simply put, it is in the sanctions bodies best interest to mandate safety issues. Mad notes in an earlier post, standards for the construction of face masks does already exist. I believe the current masks from major manufacturers comply. This is cheap insurance. I don't want to see any child seriously injured when there is no reason for it to happen.
If some of you parents don't want your child to wear it, then look into getting an exception for your child by maybe signing a waiver or exclusion of liability towards the sanctioning body. If you want to take on that responsibility go ahead, but I'm assuming there is a plurality of parents who would have no problem with a safety mandate, and I am one of them. Not a socialist, not a communist, just a parent who wants a ruling that protects the kids.
And Jeff was certainly right about lack of ability in some parents, just look at the news almost everyday and find that a parent hasn't protected their child in some simple matter and the child is injured or is killed. It happens all too often.
And in the case we we discussing is COMPLETELY PREVENTABLE!!
Myself I see it as a proactive approach that is a good way of I go. Monthlong is ever completely safe, we all get that, but if you feel softball is already safe enough why do batters need helmets?? They are t gonna get nailed anywhere near what the corners or the it here will. Does this mean we should do away with helmets,'just make it a free for all?
I don't think any of us want that, I have to believe we all want what is best and safest for our kids.

 

[cobb_of_fury]

Jeff, I didn't call you arrogant, nor should you consider my post as an attack. Debates are the wonderful thing about a free society. I said the statement was full of arrogance, in the fact that statement states that you know what is best for other people's kids.

When it comes to a kid worrying about a college coach looking at them, that is a cultural issue. Do the coaches really frown on them wearing masks? I see more girls in college wearing the mask in the circle. This is where I am a proponent of education rather than legislation. If you get the college coaches to openly say they have no issue with them wearing a mask than you've eliminated that obstacle. I know your intentions are pure of heart.

Comparing football to softball is like apples to oranges. Contact in football is every single play. How many games have you been to and personally seen someone take it off of the face or head? I'm not talking about that you heard about it or saw it on a video. I'm asking that you have witnessed seeing yourself. Then ask herself how many games have you seen in person over the years and the amount of plays in a game. We are talking about a statistic that is ~.25% at the most. You have to change the culture thru education.

I will agree that a female getting hit in the face and having scarring or disfigurement from the accident will have grave psychological ramifications.

I would mostly agree with you - Though as I stated I have no problem at this point with sanctioning bodies mandating what they see fit that?s their job...

With that being said...

Two things; yes Softball and football are apples and Oranges but not for the reason you think.
The odds of a mask protecting someone in softball is much greater than the a football helmet protecting someone - All the football helmet protects you from is being hit in the head by other peoples helmets. There's a game called Rugby that has very similar action to football and they wear no helmet or pads. they don't tend to have the traumatic brain injuries of football. Most of the real damage in football comes from the whiplash action of running in to each other. Splashing that grey matter around in the brainpan as it were.

In softball you have a projectile coming at you at great speed over a short distance a mask can actually spread out the impact and help protect the wearer.

Also as to players being hit in the face - My DD hits hard up the middle and doesn?t always elevate so she has hit more than a few pitchers (Lets make that number 4 i'm sure its more but 4 is a fair number) -
I cant actualy extrapalate the % but let say those 4 girls shes hit represent <0.25% of all the pitchers shes faced. That is 4 girls that she alone has hit, I'm just thankfully they all had masks -

To my knowledge I cant remember ever seening a girl get hit in the head when batting - I'm sure it happens but I can?t remember really seeing it. I'm sure it happens and I am glad they mandate helmets . But I'm guessing based on my personal experiance they are a waste though.

 

[coachjwb]

Have seen two girls in college without masks get hit in the face on deflected bunt attempts, and isn't that what happened to Jenna Lilley recently as well? Regardless, while I would prefer helmets with masks in college, they are adults and I think the chances of a severe injury are much less ... so I put this one on the side of cleats ... I don't think mandating is necessary ... just to make a point before someone makes the "do you think we should put them in bubble wrap or a suit of armor" point ...

 

[cobb_of_fury]

Have seen two girls in college without masks get hit in the face on deflected bunt attempts, and isn't that what happened to Jenna Lilley recently as well? Regardless, while I would prefer helmets with masks in college, they are adults and I think the chances of a severe injury are much less ... so I put this one on the side of cleats ... I don't think mandating is necessary ... just to make a point before someone makes the "do you think we should put them in bubble wrap or a suit of armor" point ...

you are correct - Jenna was hit in the face on a bunt attempt -
I actualy am happy the helmets and face masks are there - I was trying to make the point that just because I had never seen it didn't mean helmets were not necessary but I think I missed the mark. oh well -

 

[Pacerdad57]

Just last week I saw two girls catch fouls in the face mask of their batting helmets. Probably would not have been any serious injuries but I'll bet they were glad they had them

 

[longball00]

Here is my dilemma. My 14U DD is a pitcher (43 ft) and my Son a 9U travel Baseball Pitcher (45 ft) I'm sure the Flames will get thrown, but pitching speeds at the 9U baseball level are close (age appropriate) to the Fastpitch speeds, although 2 feet further. Why is there never a mention of masks for the boys playing baseball? I won't accept the they are girls argument, because I have seen a lot of girls who's glove skills and reaction times are far superior to most baseball kids. I know about the helmet hat thing they are trying to go with for baseball, but nothing for the face. Just something to add to the Facemask mix discussion.

 

[DanMaz]

Here is my dilemma. My 14U DD is a pitcher (43 ft) and my Son a 9U travel Baseball Pitcher (45 ft) I'm sure the Flames will get thrown, but pitching speeds at the 9U baseball level are close (age appropriate) to the Fastpitch speeds, although 2 feet further. Why is there never a mention of masks for the boys playing baseball? I won't accept the they are girls argument, because I have seen a lot of girls who's glove skills and reaction times are far superior to most baseball kids. I know about the helmet hat thing they are trying to go with for baseball, but nothing for the face. Just something to add to the Facemask mix discussion.

riptit makes a mask for youth baseball. i bought one 2 years ago for my son for these same reasons... he is 12 yr old now... never got him to wear it. Had a kid bounce a fly ball off his nose / cheek in left field just last week god bless the kid was playing the next game and is so lucky it didnt bounce off his mouth, one of his eyes or forehead. looked really bad and scary but he was one lucky kid!!

i was thinking of adding flames or something cool to it but ... never worked out. he plays SS and outfield and glad he doesn't pitch!