Poaching Players & Jumping Ship

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I agree 100% with Joe. We are also teaching "life lessons" to our DDs also. If you have made the committment, make the best of it and see it through to the end. Then once the season is "officially" over, explore other options. I'm sure we wouldn't want our DDs to drop out of school or quit a job just because things don't always go their way.

JMHO

 

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I do not know why Bears eyes are out, I think team names should be allowed to be mentioned along with the coaches or recruits name. Sometimes its not the other teams but the parents telling the kid they need a better team, I had one like this. Great kid, excellent ball player but mommy and daddy thought she needed to move on even though she did not want to. This was at 12u, now the girl is 16 and playing for her 3rd team since the parents made her leave, ridiculous. Parents that do things like this to their daughter ****!!! As far as recruiting a player of mine during the year, please do not make it obvious cause my foot up your @ss will be obvious in front of everybody at any time. This is how I feel about this topic. Parents and players should have some loyalty and stay committed and coaches should stay away from other teams.

 

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I also agree with JoeA! I appreciate everyones thoughts on this topic.

 

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Having been around for a day or two and being this is my DD last year being able to play 18's like to put my 2 cents in.......I have only knowingly been affected by "poaching" once.....ultimately the young lady was wooed to the other side so to speak and she is still a very dear friend to us to this day......do I think poaching once commited is okay.....not only no but hell no.......do I think it is okay for a player to up and leave once commited......I will say it is okay only after every attempt has been made to sit down with the coaches, discuss the concerns, and all remedies have been attempted for a resolution.....however I would ask....why did you go to that team in the first place? Why did you not do your homework to see if the team would be a fit.......now there is of course the dilemma of said team having to replace you during a period when most of the players have "commited" to respective teams...puts everyone in a tough situation.

Generally the reasons for a player leaving.
1. Player not playing position that family thinks she needs to play.
2. Team had visions of greatness and ended up being not very competitive
3. No Coaching
4. Schedule changes from date of tryouts
5. Player and coach relationship (negative aspects)

Hard to poach a family that are happy with current situation. Also, hard to get upset with a family for leaving xyz team for a chance to play for - lets say Lasers. Of, course there are many exceptions. Generally when a player leaves, the coach truly does already knows that something is going on. Hardly is it just out of the blue. Most of the time it is better for both teams.
The reason why it is more common now, is that there are more teams than ever.

 

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Totally agree that in a lot of cases when a player jumps ship the coach is aware that there are already issues. On rare occasions the coach has no idea it is coming. In those cases I can only say when leaving for greener pastures these parents and players need to be careful not to step in bull! As for the coach who has not problem poaching players. Shame on you!! All the trophy's in the world cannot bring back the respect you lose along the way.

 

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Actually, a team does own a girl once she has signed an ASA roster (I would assume the same for USSSA, NSA, etc.) for that calendar year.

Actually, ASA Code only freezes a player to a team for ASA Championship Play - they are 'red-lined' to the roster when they check in for the first tournament of Championship Play until the team is done with Championship Play.

Our local association, SoCal State, offers an optional Player Agreement Form to teams. It provides more control over players for the teams that choose to use it - including the ability to block recruited players from changing teams before entering Championship Play.

 

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This happened to me for the first time last season. Coach from another org which actually is the head of the org actively recruited a few of my players from my team. This was during tournaments both our teams where in. This caused problems on my team since one of the players being wooed tried to talk a few other girls on my team to jump ship too. Fortunately the other girls thought it through and in the long run it made our team stronger this year since a few of the girls that were causing problems did jump ship. It also opened up better communication with the girls and myself since it lead to discussions about their future on the team. In hindsight in this case the other coach did me and the team a favor and if the player and parents act the way they did when with our team I feel sorry for their team. However I think it is wrong to actively recruit during tournaments. How low can you go in my opinion.

 

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Wonder who would do that ;&

 

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My dd joined a higher level tournament team that had a 20 year reputation as a competitive showcase college prep team with most of their players going on to play in college year in and year out. We did our research and knew some of the players that had played and were excited to be selected. Unknown to us they recruited a total of 5 pitchers. What no one knew until the first tournament was that they intended to throw only their 2 'best' pitchers at every tournament, the same two regardless of their success.

These two 'best' were pitching hurt (from over throwing) but still throwing every game. The other three pitchers were playing their secondary positions. One has gone onto pitch at D3, another was just recruited to a D1 program (my dd is now a junior in the middle of the recruiting process) so they were all quality pitchers. Yet only the TWO threw all the games.

We stuck it out and finished our commitment to this team because it was the right thing to do. My daughter did not progress in her pitching that summer. She would have been better served by leaving after that first tournament and pitching for a team that had a need. The coaches lied to us and did not deserve our loyalty, yet we continued to do what was right.

Do you think that he sticking will make any difference to a college coach when they do their recruiting? I hope it will make a difference to my dd when she is in hard place and how she carries herself throughout her life.

 

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Do you think that he sticking will make any difference to a college coach when they do their recruiting? I hope it will make a difference to my dd when she is in hard place and how she carries herself throughout her life.

If your DD is being recruited as a pitcher, then the college coach will ask the travel coach to have her pitch. If the travel coach refuses, then that team has just shot itself in the foot as far as college recruiting goes. The coach was, and probably still is, clueless about recruiting for ALL of his girls.

But there are other signals here than you might realize. But that is another topic.

 

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Wonder who would do that ;&

I know who, as a player this organization tried to get me durning 14's, 16's and even 18's........they are the biggest and probably the most well known organization in the state, they are the poster child for poaching players...but they got some good ones.......

 

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Some travel coaches are in it for trophies and recognition, others are in it for the girls and their development. It is up to the parents and players to be smart and choose wisely. If you do your homework, you will be fine. If you get caught up in the trophy hunt or only playing for the big name teams, than you get what you ask for.

The big name teams are successful for a reason, they are about winning and putting forth the best no matter what. If you are contributing to the success of their team, you will get asked back. If not, you will be replaced by someone who will contribute, be it the beginning, middle, or end of the season. If you aren't willing to take the risk of getting replaced if your dd's preformance falters, than do not accept the offer from the big organizations. That is why they are good year after year, they do what is necessary to get the best players and they only play the best players. If your dd isn't up to par, then she will be replaced. This isn't a popularity contest, it is a fastpitch softball club. There is a lot of time and money wrapped up in these teams and they are going to do whatever is necessary to ensure the teams success, even if some toes get stepped on in the process.

When there are 15 players on the roster, 6 of which are pitchers, how can you be so surprised that your dd isn't getting the pitching time you had hoped for? Don't let the "My dd made the Southside Studs!!!" thinking cloud your judgement. Pay attention from the start to what is going on around you and you can avoid most of the problems that cause jumping ship.

 

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Fairman ... you didn't say what you were told when your daughter was recruited to this team, but my assumption is that you were told that she would be part of the regular pitching rotation. Having had a daughter who was a pitcher (now pitching in college), we always had a frank discussion upfront with her potential coaches about pitching rotation plans, and I believe it is important to do so though I know some people feel differently (i.e., play wherever the coach decides is best for team). As a travel coach myself these days, I make sure I communicate to families when we ask them to join the team as to what my plans are for pitchers. If this conversation happened in your case and you were outright lied to, then I don't think you should have felt a commitment to remain with that team and I'm not sure what lesson that teaches the player. Now, if the conversation had been along the lines of each pitcher is going to have to earn their pitching time and you chose to take that chance, then that would be a different story. Had that happened with my daughter, we would have looked for another team and, as a coach today, I would only have myself to blame if I lost a player who I had lied to.

 

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this is always a sensitive subject for the 'poachers'.... like talking bad about liars while standing within a group of liars....

As a coach... I NEVER POACH.... I NEVER RECRUIT....

Why is that important... because my position is to leave other teams alone and "their players", I expect the same in return. Now, because that is unrealistic in the competitive world I know snakes are a plenty...I could make up stories now... but in reality for MY team and my coaching staff, I know of 3 or 4 players that have approached me during the season asking to come aboard. My rule and comment is... "that is wonderful you think that about us, but until August tryouts occur, you'll have to come see me then". And I always ask if they are still on their teams roster during this short conversation. I've had players alone as well as with their parents approach me. Haven't had the need to pick up players mid season for a long term situation (other than borrowing from local teams and from Cleveland once), not that needing players changes my view. Just how I roll.... personal standards I guess.

Now, the coach must be able to provide a vision, one that is attainable for the team and each player, as well as truly coach them into better habits and situational control on the field. Yes, for all!!! If not, their role is being abused and improper or lack of communication will be to the coaching staff's demise. If the team isn't real with expectations based upon the players and their roles, the entire thing will implode. Even DD's with head-case issues can be managed to a point (I know this one) and if you brutally (with tact) face the demons you can keep the reigns pulled tight enough to stay on track. So if we don't push their skill-set and softball IQ's I would expect them to leave. I've lost players to "aging" out of our age specific team arrangement/change over, MY own DD being burnt out, and other coaches DD's being burnt out. Only had to cut one player because the entire fit wasn't working during tryouts. And we've never tried out a player that was on another team. Hope others will abide by this...

If a player does leave, we keep the first commitment fee, the remaining balance is prorated daily... all of which is in our contract, rules, and what we do!!! I want to say all is perfect when this happens (only a couple times that I know of in the org) but to say life is perfect isn't fair to say. Usually emotion takes over and that is hard to manage. My two cents...

 

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Some travel coaches are in it for trophies and recognition, others are in it for the girls and their development. It is up to the parents and players to be smart and choose wisely. If you do your homework, you will be fine. If you get caught up in the trophy hunt or only playing for the big name teams, than you get what you ask for.

The big name teams are successful for a reason, they are about winning and putting forth the best no matter what. If you are contributing to the success of their team, you will get asked back. If not, you will be replaced by someone who will contribute, be it the beginning, middle, or end of the season. If you aren't willing to take the risk of getting replaced if your dd's preformance falters, than do not accept the offer from the big organizations. That is why they are good year after year, they do what is necessary to get the best players and they only play the best players. If your dd isn't up to par, then she will be replaced. This isn't a popularity contest, it is a fastpitch softball club. There is a lot of time and money wrapped up in these teams and they are going to do whatever is necessary to ensure the teams success, even if some toes get stepped on in the process.

When there are 15 players on the roster, 6 of which are pitchers, how can you be so surprised that your dd isn't getting the pitching time you had hoped for? Don't let the "My dd made the Southside Studs!!!" thinking cloud your judgement. Pay attention from the start to what is going on around you and you can avoid most of the problems that cause jumping ship.

That's it in a nut shell!!!!

 

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Coachjwb. She came to this team as a pitcher/outfielder. During the winter practices we never quite had a full roster due to bb so I did not realize what was what until the summer tournaments started and I found 5 legitimate pitchers on the roster.

At tryouts I heard that she would have to earn her innings but I assumed that it meant that she would actually have an opportunity on the pool games to show her stuff. I knew how good she was and was confidant that she would get her opportunities. I had no idea how the two were selected.

The ball was handed to these 2 pitchers while the other 3 filled-in on the field playing defense and batting. The orphan three were never given an opportunity to pitch.

We are more careful to understand what the coaches say to us, to check out their reputations, and to not assume much. By the time we found out the lay of the land we had signed the rosters, were committed and we stayed. It was a lost summer.

 

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I had a player leave last month. Her father called to explain his reasons. Was I happy, no. I thought a commitment had been made both ways but I did respect the fact that I was notified as soon as the decision was made. This allowed me the opporunity to fill her spot and move forward very early in the season.

I will admit I am not much of a recruiter but even in 10U and 12U I am seeing more and more of it. Coaches handing out business cards like they are IMG agents to players and parents between games. At the end of the day if a family is interested in leaving there was a breakdown some where along the line and you have to just accept it and move forward.

 

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Coachjwb. She came to this team as a pitcher/outfielder. During the winter practices we never quite had a full roster due to bb so I did not realize what was what until the summer tournaments started and I found 5 legitimate pitchers on the roster.

At tryouts I heard that she would have to earn her innings but I assumed that it meant that she would actually have an opportunity on the pool games to show her stuff. I knew how good she was and was confidant that she would get her opportunities. I had no idea how the two were selected.

The ball was handed to these 2 pitchers while the other 3 filled-in on the field playing defense and batting. The orphan three were never given an opportunity to pitch.

We are more careful to understand what the coaches say to us, to check out their reputations, and to not assume much. By the time we found out the lay of the land we had signed the rosters, were committed and we stayed. It was a lost summer.

fairman knows of what he speaks. my dd's were the other two who got no pitching time. Let me rephrase that because my one dd who now pitches D3 got one game and threw a 3-0 shutout. My other DD (who one season later) just verballed to a D1 school. This all happened in 2009! My dd left that team, pitched for a different team the next year and got a D1 offer! Fairmans dd threw a couple of innings indoors in the winter and was very effective. I can't figure out why these girls were not given a chance. PS our team was getting thumped. Other than that 3-0 win.

 

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Players leaving a team is hard to pass judgment, you don't know all the circumstances. I think it is pretty low to try to poach players from other teams. I have seen coaches pass out business cards to players and parents after a game. NOT COOL!!!! Not only will I not poach a player, I would be skeptical of any coach that would. If you are on that team how do you know he will not replace you if they can find a better player mid season. We commit to our players for a year, then have open tryouts. If the players are not what you want, keep looking. Don't give them a spot until you can find someone better.

 

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I agree with Sidneycrosby.