Question regarding ASA strikezone..

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I realize the strikezone is not dictated by the sanction, but we have now played in two ASA qualifiers and the umpires will NOT give our pitchers the inside corner... Although it may be an exaggeration, but it seems they will give you a foot outside. And it hasn't been just one umpire either. Is anyone else experiencing this??

Our pitchers do not have overpowering speed, so they really rely on hitting their spots. However, when they can't get that inside corner call, it really limits their arsonel. I'm not one to argrue with the umpire since I used to do a little part time umping myself, but I have just been noticing a trend so far this year.

 

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This is interesting, we play in northeast Ohio typically, but played at Berliner this past weekend. Or pitchers are accustomed to working the knees, and are quite effective. However @ Berliner it had to be mid thigh, with every umpire to get the call. Finally an ASA Ump told us, they don't have low strike zones here, just not their thing. We played another northeast Ohio team, and it was funny watching both pitchers learn to bring the Ball up. It must be a regional thing.

 

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Why does it have to be a regional thing. The strike zone is the strike zone period. Why do some people call it differently than others. It isn't a personal preference thing... It's a rule. That drives me crazy.

 

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Madd ... couldn't agree with you more. A couple of times in my coaching career during the pre-game meeting with the umpire, they made a statement that started with "tell your pitchers that my strike zone is ____________ ". I mean how are you supposed to handle that? I wanted to say both times, "there is only one strike zone in the rule book and you need to call it", but that's not going to do my team any favors, is it? I guess the right thing is to report them to the UIC after the game? What gives anyone the right to make up their own rules????

 

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I noticed with Asa umpires how they are taught to stand. They are angled over inside shoulder so unless it fully hits the corner you won't get the call. The outside corner is different because of the angle they are standing they do not get a good view of it so it is a judgement call sometimes educated guess depending on catcher movement. NSA and OHSSA tend to stand neutral so there is no favored corner. This is just an observation though from watching stances and calls.

 

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Throughout history, we've always heard "You have to adjust to the umpire's strike zone". This is another example of that. We all know how the strike zone is defined, but the only person who's definition counts is the ump behind the plate of the game you're in.

Batters and pitchers on both teams have to pay attention early - see what's being called - and make the adjustments.

 

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We played an ASA tourney this weekend where the old man behind the plate actually told our catcher that she had to move out of the way (apparently her head was in his way) so he could see the pitch.

 

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I get it that umps call the zone a little differently because they actually see it a little differently, but there should be no dispute about what the strike zone is supposed to be ...

 

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This could be an all-summer debate. I don't understand the reasoning for differences in umpires calling a rule-defined zone. I believe these people need to be informed early in the training process they do not have the liberty to do things like define their own strike zone. Again, I'm reluctant to rock the umpire boat because I do appreciate them but attitude seems to dictate many issues with umpires and I for one have not learned how to win this battle. As mentioned earlier and I've had it happen to me, why can't we correct umpires by telling them to simply call the book -defined strike zone? Why does this hurt their feelings so much? When you get an umpire that won't let you have any of the zone that favors a pitcher such as the knees area for example, you ultimately will end up with a higher scoring game just because. I don't like it. I don't agree with it. I believe the height of a pitch should be the easier of all the angles to get correct yet umpires as mentioned get fixed on the middle thigh and refuse the rest of the zone. While I to preach we need to adjust to umpires it shouldn't be necessary. I'm still open for suggestion to hear how we should approach this issue but until we come up with a laser system that calls balls and strikes, the human-------------or inhuman element will continue to keep me scratching my bald head.

 

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I noticed with Asa umpires how they are taught to stand. They are angled over inside shoulder so unless it fully hits the corner you won't get the call. The outside corner is different because of the angle they are standing they do not get a good view of it so it is a judgement call sometimes educated guess depending on catcher movement. NSA and OHSSA tend to stand neutral so there is no favored corner. This is just an observation though from watching stances and calls.

I won't dispute your observations. Whatever you saw is what you saw.

But I can tell you this: With respect to how and where the plate umpire is supposed to set up, ASA, OHSAA and NSA all teach exactly the same thing. Umpires are to be in "the slot", the space between the catcher and the batter and be angled so that their pelvis is pointing toward the front outside corner of the plate.

You might be seeing some differences, but if all of these umpires were following the training of their respective sanctioning bodies, you wouldn't be.

 

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We played an ASA tourney this weekend where the old man behind the plate actually told our catcher that she had to move out of the way (apparently her head was in his way) so he could see the pitch.

Were you at the Dayton Metro?? In all seriousness, the umpire we had behind the plate for our last game had to of been pushing 75. I don't think he moved from his position at all during the game. Even in between innings, he just stayed there. The poor younger base ump had to run around like a spider monkey to call the plays for all other bases.

 

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This is interesting, we play in northeast Ohio typically, but played at Berliner this past weekend. Or pitchers are accustomed to working the knees, and are quite effective. However @ Berliner it had to be mid thigh, with every umpire to get the call. Finally an ASA Ump told us, they don't have low strike zones here, just not their thing. We played another northeast Ohio team, and it was funny watching both pitchers learn to bring the Ball up. It must be a regional thing.

I believe that it might be a regional thing. But it's not a central Ohio region thing!

Despite being held in Columbus, this huge tournament by and large was not assigned from the Columbus umpiring pool. The majority were from out of the central district. There were umpires from the Columbus area working on fields 1-5 (I know, because I was one of them). The other 25 or so fields were covered by umpires from all over the state. I know that I talked to a couple of umpires from up around Akron and another from Cincinnati over the weekend.

So, I wonder what somebody would mean by "we don't have low strikes here"? More than likely the "here" this person was refering to was not Columbus!

Frankly, I have never been instructed at any level of ASA traing to ignore the low strike. Why would an umpire even want to do that? All you're going to do is have more walks, make your games longer and tick off the pitchers who's bread and butter is to live at the knees.

Seems kind of counterproductive to me- unless you have a thing for long, high scoring games. But if you want high scoring games...go work slow pitch!

 

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When you get an umpire that won't let you have any of the zone that favors a pitcher such as the knees area for example, you ultimately will end up with a higher scoring game just because. I don't like it. I don't agree with it. I believe the height of a pitch should be the easier of all the angles to get correct yet umpires as mentioned get fixed on the middle thigh and refuse the rest of the zone. While I to preach we need to adjust to umpires it shouldn't be necessary.

I couldn't agree more. We faced some big hitting teams this weekend. All do respect to them. However, our pitchers having to adjust to the umps strikezone, which seemed to be across the belt and middle to outside, really took away from their competitive advantage and forced them to make pitches that they normally wouldn't because they don't have the speed of some other pitchers.

With that said, I will give props for consistancy because they did call it both ways. I mainly started this conversation to see if anyone else has been struggling to get that inside corner call this year.

 

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The only time I might have a little trouble with the inside corner call is when the catcher sets up so close to the plate that she completely blocks my view of the inside corner.

When the umpire's view is blocked, it makes it kind of hard to make the call! When your view is blocked, you have the responsibility to adjust. If you have to move, then move so that you can get a better view. The catcher can set up anywhere she wants to (as long as she's in the catcher's box and not impeding the batter). But it is in the catcher's best interest to set up in a manner that best allows the umpire to see the plate and the pitch!

Some catchers just don't get that. They work so inside, or so high, that no matter where you adjust you're going to have a hard time seeing the plate. They're probably costing their pitchers a few strikes by blocking the view of the plate. It just so happens that this is most often a problem with inside pitches.

 

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we were at berliner as well and noticed the same thing. In a couple of our games pitches at the knees of even a couple of inches above were caled balls. Pitches needed to be coming in just under the pelvis. Also the outside edge on a couple of umps was crazy. We had some pictures of the ball several inches inside the other batters box that were caled strikes.

Biggest problem was it was inconsistant on the outside. 1 pitch would be called strike and the same location 2 pitches later would be a ball.

 

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The only time I might have a little trouble with the inside corner call is when the catcher sets up so close to the plate that she completely blocks my view of the inside corner.

When the umpire's view is blocked, it makes it kind of hard to make the call! When your view is blocked, you have the responsibility to adjust. If you have to move, then move so that you can get a better view. The catcher can set up anywhere she wants to (as long as she's in the catcher's box and not impeding the batter). But it is in the catcher's best interest to set up in a manner that best allows the umpire to see the plate and the pitch!

Some catchers just don't get that. They work so inside, or so high, that no matter where you adjust you're going to have a hard time seeing the plate. They're probably costing their pitchers a few strikes by blocking the view of the plate. It just so happens that this is most often a problem with inside pitches.

Thanks for the advise Bretman... To be honest, one of our other coaches handle the pitchers and catchers. So, I haven't been paying much attention to where our catchers set up. That does makes since. I will absolutely be looking at this during practice this week and at our tournament this weekend.

 

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Bretman, I am not sure what defined "here", but our umpires were the same crew all weekend on our fields(28-32). Not sure which area they were from. I was impressed with most of our umpires all weekend, I just noticed the knee high strike was not called, consistently, we adjusted and had a wonderful time.

It's actually neat, But after only 2 years of managing, and our girls playing at this level, how we have learned our local officials, "tendencies".

I cannot believe it is possible for every umpires strike zone to be the same, each batter has diff tendencies at the plate, some like em low, some high, some in, some out. Same for pitchers hitting spots( which can sometimes change day to day!). we all make mistakes, and have our tendencies, with reps and training, we should all get better, however we will never be perfect,... but we must keep trying!

 

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We played a PGF tourney and the umpire called one of our slappers out of the box on a hit. But there was not box drawn on the field. Said it was in his "judgement". Is that a judgment call?

 

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.... when the batters - either intentionally, or not - erase the lines throughout the game, what else could it be? You can't "not call it" because there's no lines.

 

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We played an ASA tourney this weekend where the old man behind the plate actually told our catcher that she had to move out of the way (apparently her head was in his way) so he could see the pitch.

laughing my butt off