Rules Question - Could anything have been done

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Yesterday in the state tourney, I saw an interesting play take shape. Go ahead runner on 2nd in top of 7th with one out. Batter bunts, infielder fields the ball and makes a play at first and get runner at first by a step - umpire calls her out. First base coach sends runner to second. In mean time, first baseman eyes runner who advanced from second to third on bunt and gets ball back into pitcher. Pitcher briefly looks at runner going to second and then starts pointing out that she was out at first.

I am not passing judgement on whether the first base coach thought the runner was safe or did it as a possible distraction to try and score go ahead run.

My question is - Is their any recourse on behalf of the umpire IF that play would have resulted in the go ahead run scoring (which it did not)?

 

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Sounds like textbook interference to me! If there was a clear loud call on the play at 1st, I would call it intentional and retire the side with the third out being the advancing runner on third.

 

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On that same play the runner on third left the bag while the pitcher had the ball in the circle but the pitcher raised her hand with the ball as she was pointing at the runner(who was clearly out a 1B) going to second base. I thought they should have called runner on 3B out on look back rule.

 

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If the team would have played on the runner, after a coach had sent her, a coaches interference could have been called, and the lead runner could have been called out.

I have only seen this called on drop 3rd situations to try and draw a throw to 1st and score from 3rd with 1st base is occupied.

It is rarely called however

 

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If it's the game I was at, the 1st base ump had to be told by his partner where to position himself, so it doesn't surprise me nothing was called. The better team won yesterday and not much more can be said on would haves could haves.....

 

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Mike, the high school rule that covers this is 8-6-18.

A runner is out when...After being declared out or scoring, a runner intentionally interferes with a defensive player's opportunity to make a play on another runner. A runner continuing to run and drawing a throw may be considered a form of interference. This does not apply to the batter-runner running on the dropped third strike rule.

To be judged as interference, the retired runner must actually interfere with something. The act of continuing to run alone is not in itself illegal. In this case, the retired runner didn't wind up interfering with anything- no harm, no foul.

If it is ruled as interference, the ball is dead and the runner closest to home is called out.

The rule says that this may be ruled as interference and the umpires have some discretion in calling it. The first question is did the retired runner actually in some way prevent the defense from making a valid play on another runner. Did she cause the defense to play upon her or subsequently bump into a fielder or contact a throw that was part of another play?

Secondly, the umpire has to decide if the retired runner had adequate opportunity to realize she was out and if the defense had ample opportunity to realize that she had been retired. Naturally, this part of the decision relies heavily on the judgment of the individual umpire making the call.

So, yes, there is something the umpires can do about this! But only if the retired runner actually interferes with something after having been called out.

 

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Thank you. As Hilliard Dad said, the better team won the game on that day and the play had no impact on the results. Just a what if question.

 

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Interesting, sounds like it was intentional. A play to distract the defense and try to sneak in a run. They may not have know it was illegal or did and figured it was worth the try and hope it doesn't get called.

What does everyone think about that kind of play? Would you do it? If the run did score how many ump's out of 10 do you think would have called it correct? (And Bretman is not one of the ten LOL)

 

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Was it intentional or not? If the 1B coach didn't hear the call or wasn't clear on it his/her job is to keep playing. The pitcher should do what she should have even if the batter/runner was safe and that is to take care of the runner on 3B.

It would be really tough to make a judgment call in that situation.

 

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It seems obvious to me, interference can be called whether it is intentional or not, correct? Regardless, if no interference is called the runner out at first, the runner at third should be out for violating the look back rule. Unfortunately, we have not seen the look back rule enforced at all this year. It does not make sense to have a rule if it is never enforced. But I am talking about school ball of course and well, we all know...

 

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Another umpire said to me once that it is the defense's obligation to know what to do. If the umpire made a clear out call, then I believe that the defense should have the responsibility to make the right play, or as in the case, no play.

To respond to Musty, I don't like deceitful tactics, if that is what this was. Regardless, it is up to coaches to teach their players how to handle the situation.

 

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we all know...[/QUOTE] yeah we all know travel ball is far superior to hs ball :lmao: you are allowed contact with the players for almost 11 months a year, your players pay expensive fees to play and you can recruit from any area yet i have seen many travel ball teams that couldn't compete with rec ball teams let alone a hs team

 

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we all know... yeah we all know travel ball is far superior to hs ball :lmao: you are allowed contact with the players for almost 11 months a year, your players pay expensive fees to play and you can recruit from any area yet i have seen many travel ball teams that couldn't compete with rec ball teams let alone a hs team

Wake up from your dream and you will stop seeing them :lmao:

You sound a little bitter. Whats wrong gersh?

 

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If the coach knew it was an out call and gave the order to run to second, that's about as bush as anything I've seen. If I were that coach, I wouldn't be totally surprised to find a ball in the pre-inning infield the next inning meeting my thigh or rear end.

As far as the call, I'd have to look at the rules, but isn't there such a thing as verbal interference on base coaches? As I recall, it includes any verbal act that "confuses" a defensive player and the runner closest to home is out?

 

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If the coach knew it was an out call and gave the order to run to second, that's about as bush as anything I've seen. If I were that coach, I wouldn't be totally surprised to find a ball in the pre-inning infield the next inning meeting my thigh or rear end.

As far as the call, I'd have to look at the rules, but isn't there such a thing as verbal interference on base coaches? As I recall, it includes any verbal act that "confuses" a defensive player and the runner closest to home is out?

Careful Joe, utilizing the 'unwritten rules of the game' on the coach is crossing the line.

 

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I thought the same thing, Mike. Now, every player on the team has to know the "unwritten rule" and not just only the pitcher.

 

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It seems obvious to me, interference can be called whether it is intentional or not, correct? Regardless, if no interference is called the runner out at first, the runner at third should be out for violating the look back rule. Unfortunately, we have not seen the look back rule enforced at all this year. It does not make sense to have a rule if it is never enforced. But I am talking about school ball of course and well, we all know...

That is true.

 

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we all know...

yeah we all know travel ball is far superior to hs ball :lmao: you are allowed contact with the players for almost 11 months a year, your players pay expensive fees to play and you can recruit from any area yet i have seen many travel ball teams that couldn't compete with rec ball teams let alone a hs team

I assume you are speaking about the awesome rec All-Star teams that I have coached in the last few year? I was afraid nobody was noticing!

 

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Wake up from your dream and you will stop seeing them :lmao:

You sound a little bitter. Whats wrong gersh?

Not bitter just disgusted at how HS BALL is constantly looked down upon vs travel ball. Considering that high school players come from only that school I think HS coaches for the most part do a great job and the need for bashing is uncalled for. Look at the great softball played here on the eastside. How can you bash programs like Glen Este,CNE,Felicity,Goshen,Amelia,Wilmington,New Richmond and the SBC and FAVC have to be 2 of the toughest overall conferences in Ohio.

 

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OK boys, here's what SHOULD have happened. That pitcher should have just winged the ball straight at the 1st base coaches head, saying she was trying to just pick off the runner. :lmao:

Here's the root of a serious problem in youth sports. This IS NOT rocket science, or even a difficult play. Someone tell me why the defense would even pay attention to the batter-runner? Joystick zombies?? She could run into the outfield singing, and should have been ignored!! The pitcher KNEW she was out! Her job from that point (with ball in hand) is to stop the runner who could make a difference - the lead runner. You're even splitting hairs with the look-back rule. As long as she went back to the base, PLAY BALL!

Can you say "over-coaching" or "robots"?? Used to be, the kids playing the game KNEW what to do in these situations. And it has nothing to do with retaliation or plunking batters, coaches, etc. Knowing situational game play/coverages is just as important as throwing, catching and hitting.