Stolen Base?

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I need the wisdom of the veteran OFC'rs.

I keep score for my dd's high school team. I make sure to keep the stats as correctly as I can for all the girls.

Yesterday I was talking to the catchers dad and he brought up a good point. So now I need clarification if I am actually scoring this correctly. Here goes:

Runner on third and first. When first pitch is thrown the runner on first pretty much "skips" to second base. The catcher does not make a play (by choice) because there is a runner on third that could score. Is this a stolen base? or should it be considered a fielders choice since it was to the catchers discretion NOT to make a throw to second?

For the record, I have been scoring it as a stolen base for the last 2+ years. But he got me thinking that maybe I shouldn't be.

 

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I would score it as Indifference, no stolen base.

 

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I don't score it as a stolen base.

 

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I don't score it as a stolen base.

Well, what do you score it as? You just move her over and don't label it as anything? I could do that. The coach who taught me score always wanted to know how every player got to every base. But I suppose, unless it's a stat of somekind, I don't really need to do that.

 

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I would score it as Indifference, no stolen base.

I agree

 

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I would score it as Indifference, no stolen base.

I have actually never heard of this. Unfortunately I have already blown our catchers stats ! But from now on, Indifference it is! :yahoo:

Thank you for your help all!!

 

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Score it as a stolen base. She shouldn't be punished because there is a runner on third and the defense isn't strong enough to make a play AND keep the runner on third. I'm sure you would score it as "CS" if they threw her out........right?

 

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I score it "Catchers Indifference" I write CI instead of SB in the book.

 

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This is one where I think the ATEC scoring guide credits a stolen base. Assuming that the play qualifies as an attempted double steal (and the language I quote below suggests that ATEC does consider this a double steal attempt), here is what ATEC says:

"3) In the first and third double steal, credit the runner
advancing to second base with a stolen base if no throw
is made (unless indifference because of a lopsided
score was the cause of no defensive action), even if the
advance was made immediately after rounding on a
walk,"

ATEC goes on to say that only if there is defensive indifference should the advancement from first to second be scored as a fielder's choice.

SO, if the defense is way ahead and isn't holding the ball to prevent the steal from third, then you have defensive indifference and a fielder's choice instead of a stolen base.

 

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Indifference = Fielder's Choice.

But, not so fast sports fans.......

In the NFHS Rulebook, under Definitions and under Scorekeeping we have this:

SECTION 55 STOLEN BASE
A stolen base is the advance of a runner to the next base without the aid of a base hit, a putout, a fielding error, a passed ball or a wild pitch. A double or triple steal involves two or three runners, respectively.

SECTION 4 PLAYER?S BASERUNNING RECORD
A stolen base (F.P.) shall be credited in the summary to a runner each time the runner advances a base without the aid of a base hit, a putout or a fielding (including battery) error.

EXCEPTION: No runner is credited with a stolen base (2-55) if:
a. after reaching the base, the runner overslides and is put out;
b. in an attempted double or triple steal, any runner is put out; or
c. opponents are in collusion, such as a deliberate attempt to help establish a record.

There is no mention at all in the NFHS Rulebook about indifference or Fielder's Choice for this situation.

 

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Score it as Catcher's Indifference. Just write CI in the book instead of SB.

In my opinion if the catcher receives the pitch and doesn't make an attempt and is only worried about the runner on third, she has shown indifference to the trail runner's actions.

It is similar to MLB in which a player steals a base in the last inning while trailing by 6 and the catcher doesn't throw down. That is scored CI as well.

 

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It's officially called cathers indifferece.MLB score it that way all the time,especially late in the game when the runner on 1st is not being held on and he usually joggs into second because his run does not mean a thing.But in saying that,any attempt would be considered a stolen base,even a pump fake!

 

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Well said Madness ,you beat me to the punch by 1 min.lol

 

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I had always heard that there had to be an attempt for the put out or it was Catcher's Indifference, but nothing to back this.

Send up the Bretman signal.

 

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Favor the runner and score it a steal. Runner was still at risk of a put out.

 

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Hey Sad627 ,
:yahoo:Here is where you can find all your scoring answers. Its what I use to do all scoring for my daughters team and my team. That way stats are not inflated. Hope it helps. Here is the link......... http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf

 

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Score it as a stolen base. She shouldn't be punished because there is a runner on third and the defense isn't strong enough to make a play AND keep the runner on third. I'm sure you would score it as "CS" if they threw her out........right?

No one is being "punished". And who says the defense is weak...could be a strategical move. If the catcher makes no attempt to throw out a runner because they are holding another runner on or clearly show no interest in making a play on them, it is catcher's indifference.

Yes, it would be a CS if they caught them stealing...the catcher was making a play on them, not showing indifference.

 

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There are different scorekeeping standards within softball, depending which sanction you are playing in.

High School has NFHS. NCAA has, of course, NCAA. Travel has the ATEC. The Olympics have ISF.

We should not be using MLB for softball.

So back to the original situation. In this situation, under NFHS standards, the runner on that went from first base to second base would be credited with a Stolen Base. I do not agree with this, I think it should be indifference, but that is the sanction standards that we have to follow.

 

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Thanks Softball14 for the link to the NCAA scoring guide. It does not have the language about a "lop-sided" score that ATEC has, but it also has no definition whatsoever of "indifference".

There is a strong argument that if the runner at first could have an impact on the game's outcome, the defense is not "indifferent" to her advancement to 2nd. Instead, the decision to not throw down comes from a concern that the runner on third will score.

It would be interesting to see how college scorekeepers apply the undefined "indifference" term.

 

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I had always heard that there had to be an attempt for the put out or it was Catcher's Indifference, but nothing to back this.

Send up the Bretman signal.

Sorry, I just do playing rules, not scorekeeping questions.

But I do keep a pretty good book!