Stolen Base?

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I agree with Bill V. My daughter played under ATEC, NFHS, and finally NCAA scoring rules. All have slight nuances. You have to apply scoring standards that apply to the game your daughter is currently playing. As for applying MLB scoring to women's fastpitch, you won't find a stat for a pitcher's balk anywhere in fastpitch rules or statistics, and there are many other differences.

I would say study the scoring guide that applies to high school, and DON'T use scoring rules from other sanctions no matter how tempting it may be. Otherwise, your stats will not be a reflection of the true game.

 

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There are different scorekeeping standards within softball, depending which sanction you are playing in.

High School has NFHS. NCAA has, of course, NCAA. Travel has the ATEC. The Olympics have ISF.

We should not be using MLB for softball.

So back to the original situation. In this situation, under NFHS standards, the runner on that went from first base to second base would be credited with a Stolen Base. I do not agree with this, I think it should be indifference, but that is the sanction standards that we have to follow.

Good point.....I recind my earlier post. I should have been using the proper sanction and was not. Cool!!! Five more stolen bases for DD!!! Which makes a total of five on the year!!

 

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A post by JoeA a few years ago indicated that college also now credits a stolen base in that situation. HS is the same.

It does potentially inflate the S/CS ratio of the catcher, but it is more reflective of the "opportunity" involved in the situation. The defense can go after the out.

There are teams that will challenge that runner or trade a run for an out and an empty set of bases.

So, I have been scoring them as stolen bases all year.

 

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In many years of watching fastpitch, I have yet to see a throw down in this situation where the runner on third didn't easily score. It's usually executed as a cut play in hopes of catching the runner leading too far off from third. But between competitive teams with competent coaching, (and barring a bad throw) it always ends up the same way - runners on second and third.

I think this is the thinking behind why you would NOT give a stolen base unless a throw down (or cut throw) was made for an attempted putout. Teams just don't throw down, because the runner will always score. So the "indifference" call came into play to give a more accurate statistic. Regardless, and unfortunately in high school scoring, it's STILL a stolen base.

Baseball works quite differently, due to the greater running distance. I've seen a pickle with a runner between first and second lead to an out at home. But not the case for fastpitch - the fast runner will win that battle every time.

 

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stolen base... runner advanced and it's up to the defense to stop them. I understand the indifference ruling/reasoning.

 

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Definately good reasonings for both. But seems the scoring rules are stolen base. My husband said that the indifference call in baseball was more because it isn't often the guy on first just "skips" to 2nd without a throw. They are usually stealing and because of the greater distance the 3rd base runner does not always advance to home.

Unfortunately for catcher and her dad, I have been scoring it right. ;&

 

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Good point.....I recind my earlier post. I should have been using the proper sanction and was not. Cool!!! Five more stolen bases for DD!!! Which makes a total of five on the year!!

Beautiful!

 

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Well, what do you score it as? You just move her over and don't label it as anything? I could do that. The coach who taught me score always wanted to know how every player got to every base. But I suppose, unless it's a stat of somekind, I don't really need to do that.

I score it as an uncontested advancement (UA), learned that at Kent State.

 

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As has been said already, in high school it is a stolen base. There is no mention of "indifference" in the NFHS scoring guidelines. However, I challenge people who say that the other team is "indifferent" when not throwing to 2nd. It is not that they don't care that another runner has reached potential scoring positiion, it is that they are more afraid of giving up the run to the runner at third. I have seen many coaches not throw to 2nd with a runner on third even though the runner on 2nd represents the tying or go ahead run. You can't tell me the coach is "indifferent" to that runner, they are just making a strategic move, if you ask the defensive coach, he will usually tell you "of course I don't want the runner advancing to 2nd" that is NOT indifference.

The indifference rule in MLB is not about choosing to not make a throw, it is more about a defensive team having a big lead and not caring if the runner steals. Just because there is no throw in MLB does not always mean indifference (sometimes the jump was so good the catcher decides to not chance a throw).

 

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What if the runner is so fast, that 90% of the time catchers never throw the ball down. is that "indifference" yes, but would that stat, if that is how you listed it, show that this girl is so good ie fast and should be consider a real threat.

If she ends up with 75 -CI's and 20 - SB, or 95 -SB which stat would catch your eye to show SPEED (IE 1ST BATTER)...and which one would show OPPERTUNITY. (IE FOLLOWS NUMBER 4 HITTER)

 

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@Firefly:

As I hope my earlier posts show, I agree with you.

 

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Good point.....I recind my earlier post. I should have been using the proper sanction and was not. Cool!!! Five more stolen bases for DD!!! Which makes a total of five on the year!!

Glad we agree. .

 

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In many years of watching fastpitch, I have yet to see a throw down in this situation where the runner on third didn't easily score. It's usually executed as a cut play in hopes of catching the runner leading too far off from third. But between competitive teams with competent coaching, (and barring a bad throw) it always ends up the same way - runners on second and third.

Actually saw this situation in a HS game last night with runners at 1st and 3rd and the team in the field up 3-0 with no outs late in the game. The catcher threw the girl out at second and I'm pretty sure the runner on 3rd would likely have been dead at the plate with a decent throw from SS if she tried to score. She appeared to "think about it" but did not go.

Perhaps they were surprised by the throw thru to 2B or it was not the right runners on base to try the double steal and a poor decision/assumption by the coach that called the steal. Likely the defensive team was willing to possibly trade the run for and out but they had no intention of "giving" them the run or 2B.

Interesting though... part of me thinks that at higher levels the arms are strong enough that a throw to 2B and back to home could be in time to get the runner from 3B. Personally, I've seen HS and travel teams with the right catcher and SS make this play. However, at higher levels many runners are much faster as well and I'm not sure you could or would want to do it at the next level.

With the speed of most the runners, and quality of pitching in NCAA D-1, I can see where the defense would choose to be "indifferent" and opt to make you hit to get the run.