TIME LIMITS (Again)

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Bretman, the idea is definitely a good one. But like I stated on the other thread, wouldn't the most simple answer be less teams, higher fees? Then there doesn't need to be any new way to figure out how to deal with it. Simply play the games the way they're supposed to be played. If drop deads and time limits and stalling tactics are so hated by all as it seems, then I'm sure we'd each be willing to kick in $10 more a weekend per player to be done with them. I mean $500 for a tournament sounds so much more than $400, but its nothing when broken down. Then like Spano for example:

They had 20 14u teams. 2 fields. They started at 6 pm on friday evening last game over at 11:10. Then started at 8 am on Saturday last game over at 1:10 am Sunday morning. Then back on Sunday at 8 am with last game over at 6:30 pm. With 20 teams at $375 per team they got $7500 in fees. Games were drop dead revert with 1:10 drop dead. 10 minutes between games. They also made money of course from admission fees and concession stand from the 20 teams. Format was 3 pool games and then single elim.

But if they would've only allowed 16 teams, they would've needed about $470 a team to get the $7500 in entry fees. Thats about $8.50 a player more for the entire weekend if you have an 11 player roster. So no big deal there, you'd think. And maybe the 10 less games needed would mean the umpire fees are less so maybe that offsets the admission fees and concession take at least somewhat. Now with 4 less teams you need 6 less pool games(basically in this case, you'd be eliminating one pool) and 4 less games in elimination play. So you'd be saving a little over 13 hours of time by not having to have those games. With 16 teams and this format, you'd have a total of 39 games to play. 24 for pool play and then 15 elimination play. You take that 13 hours worth of time and divide it into the 39 games and 20 minutes could've been added on to each game thus making it 1:30 per game. Still not perfect, but alot better than 1:10. And it would be more of course if say 3 fields or 4 fields were used, which is usally the case when there are 16-20 teams. Just by lowering how many teams get in would resolve the issue easily with 3 or 4 fields for a 16 team tournament. Once you hit 1:40 or an 1:50, thats usually enough to get the 7 innings in. And for every extra inning game that may throw the schedule off a little theres a run rule game that saved you time.

How hard is this? Just seems like everyone wants to find a new way to deal with time limits/drop dead when it seems so obvious the focus should be to eliminate them. Yes, it means 4 teams miss out on getting into the tournament, but most good tournaments turn away teams anyways. Sooner or later they can't take all applicants. Teams will all find a place to play on any given weekend.

Seems to me it obvious as well. Except to tournament directors besides Ohioquakerman. Have been to his Uniform Blowouts where full games have always been played. Been to the tournament where he was raising money for bases for the Goshen people and full games was played.

It's all about these individual TD's and organization-ran events and how much money they can collect by entering too many teams for less amount of game times and maximum profit. And when it rains, instead of having a cushion to give all the games and can't that's more money in their pocket when games are not played.

Quake, just keep giving those full games and those hoodies and uniforms and teams will figure it out sooner or later.
 
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Do umpires like timed games?

$35 for an 1:20
$35 for 1:40, 1:50, 2:00
 
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The same reason basketball and football games aren't 3 quarters instead of 4.
 
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This in no way is any slam on the Spano tournament by the way. I just used them as an example since it just was played. Outside of the timed games with drop dead rules, which they of course didn't invent, their tournament was great.

As far as being able to play in the winter instead of being turned away and not getting to play at all..... they turned teams away anyways. Once they got to 20. And I guess its relative to how you look at the old "the good of the few never outweigh the good of the many" saying. To me, depriving all 20 teams, including the last 4 entered that made it have to be scheduled that way, from remotely being able to participate in normal games without low time limits and drop dead rules, just so those 4 more teams could be involved, goes against that. Just makes no sense to me. 2-1 games that run out of time in the 4th inning, with some girls getting one chance at the plate is just simply not right. Someone please make the madness stop. Wish I had the energy, and time, to do a tournament. Thats how I'd do it. Of course the other answer is to get enough fields to support full games. Though of course that wasn't an option for Spano.
 
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Do umpires like timed games?

$35 for an 1:20
$35 for 1:40, 1:50, 2:00

Might depend if the guy is just in it for the money. Hopefully, your umpires are motivated by more than that.

Personally, I just figure that I'm there anyway and sticking around a little longer isn't a big deal. By the way, all of the indoor games I worked for your team this winter- 1:15 time limit and single umpire games- paid 10 bucks less than that!

There is also a flip side to this that I can understand. Suppose your "real life job" pays "X" number of dollars per hour. How happy would you be to work more hours yet still receive the same amount of pay?
 
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LOL.. riding both sides of the fence there, Bretman? Looks like to me by the figures... if you did another 5 minutes you would have gotten another $10.00 dollars. Dang, those timed games...LOL
 
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I love Bretman's idea of playing out the inning in which the clock goes off and then playing one more full inning.

Since we are also playing a ton of ASA/USA qualifiers, I'm also intrigued by the argument that these need to have longer time limits in order to be legal qualifiers. . .if that were to happen, we would be getting a much bigger return on what are fairly reasonable entry fees for these tournaments.
 
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Might depend if the guy is just in it for the money. Hopefully, your umpires are motivated by more than that.

Personally, I just figure that I'm there anyway and sticking around a little longer isn't a big deal. By the way, all of the indoor games I worked for your team this winter- 1:15 time limit and single umpire games- paid 10 bucks less than that!

There is also a flip side to this that I can understand. Suppose your "real life job" pays "X" number of dollars per hour. How happy would you be to work more hours yet still receive the same amount of pay?

Bretman:

I just threw it out there, it wasn't directed at you. I was just coming at it from a different angle. I've always liked your finish + 1 approach. I considered using it at GAPSS but in my 3 years as TD, I haven't ever heard anything about stall tactics - doesn't mean they didn't happen but know one yelled at me.

$25 for indoor game does seem low -- I270 games are $30/game - $60 for DH.

Mike
 
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I love Bretman's idea of playing out the inning in which the clock goes off and then playing one more full inning.

Since we are also playing a ton of ASA/USA qualifiers, I'm also intrigued by the argument that these need to have longer time limits in order to be legal qualifiers. . .if that were to happen, we would be getting a much bigger return on what are fairly reasonable entry fees for these tournaments.

CGS - We played in a National Qualifier last year and it was 1:40 as was the Nationals. I just assumed that Dayton, States, Region 9 and any of the other NQ would be 1:40 as well.
 
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There is also a flip side to this that I can understand. Suppose your "real life job" pays "X" number of dollars per hour. How happy would you be to work more hours yet still receive the same amount of pay?

This is called salary work.
 
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