Time limits

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I hate playing this game with time limits, but understand why it's necessary in tournaments. I'd like to pose here some things that coaches might do in time limit games to in effect either speed things up or slow them down, and would like to get everyone's view of what is acceptable and what is not. I have my own fairly strong opinions, but would like to give the opportunity for some others to answer first. The purpose is not to stir up any bad feelings between teams (so no team names please!), but instead to potentially help new coaches and parents understand what is acceptable.

1) Call time out to talk to the pitcher who is cruising along with say a 5-0 lead, and has just walked the lead off batter.
2) Call time out to talk with the pitcher who has just given up 3 runs to cut the lead to say 7-5.
3) Change pitchers with say a 7-1 lead.
4) Tell the pitcher to refuse to throw a pitch and let the ump call a ball.
5) Tell the batters to take pitches until they get a called strike.
6) Tell the batter in the on-deck circle to untie her shoe, and then to ask for time out to re-tie it when she gets up to bat.
7) Tell the #9 hole batter to swing at everything and purposely strike out to end the inning so the next inning can start before time runs out.
8) Tell the runner at 3rd to leave way early so the next inning can start.

By the way, I experienced my first "finish the inning plus one more" format a few weeks back, and really liked it ... thanks for implementing this at your tournament, Todd!

 

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Frankly, the only ones that I have a problem with are #6, #4, and possibly #1 and #3.

I should say that I especially don't have a problem with #7 and #8. That is effective game management and it gives you and your opponents an opportunity to score more runs.

Jeff, I would be surprised if the responses yield a standard of acceptability. Timed games are inherently flawed.

 

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Carol ... I agree with you 100% that timed games are inherently flawed ... I literally detest the fact that we are stuck with them, as the game was not designed with time limits in mind. I'm not going to comment yet on my opinions on the specific scenarios other than #2, but I will hint that I generally don't think that coaches should be "disrespecting" or "manipulating" the game in order to win. Re: #2, I think it stinks that a coach is made to feel guilty or accused of stalling when he or she goes out to talk with the pitcher/defense which has started to struggle and is trying to protect a lead in the late innings. I also want to ask you later about #4 since you omitted that in your response ... I respect your opinions greatly!

 

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I hate playing this game with time limits, but understand why it's necessary in tournaments. I'd like to pose here some things that coaches might do in time limit games to in effect either speed things up or slow them down, and would like to get everyone's view of what is acceptable and what is not. I have my own fairly strong opinions, but would like to give the opportunity for some others to answer first. The purpose is not to stir up any bad feelings between teams (so no team names please!), but instead to potentially help new coaches and parents understand what is acceptable.

1) Call time out to talk to the pitcher who is cruising along with say a 5-0 lead, and has just walked the lead off batter.
2) Call time out to talk with the pitcher who has just given up 3 runs to cut the lead to say 7-5.
3) Change pitchers with say a 7-1 lead.
4) Tell the pitcher to refuse to throw a pitch and let the ump call a ball.
5) Tell the batters to take pitches until they get a called strike.
6) Tell the batter in the on-deck circle to untie her shoe, and then to ask for time out to re-tie it when she gets up to bat.
7) Tell the #9 hole batter to swing at everything and purposely strike out to end the inning so the next inning can start before time runs out.
8) Tell the runner at 3rd to leave way early so the next inning can start.

By the way, I experienced my first "finish the inning plus one more" format a few weeks back, and really liked it ... thanks for implementing this at your tournament, Todd!

1. coach stay in the dugout and let the catcher have a word with her.
2. definitely ok
3. maybe, depends on the situation. Give another pitcher a chance to get some work?
4. unacceptable
5. I see no problem with this.
6. unacceptable
7 and 8. never done these but see no problem with the tactic.

 

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I can tell you that I meant to say I had a problem with #4. I have corrected the typo to state "#4" instead of #5".

 

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Whew OK, Carol, that makes more sense! Follow-up question to Mad since I respect his opinion as well ... does #3 make any difference if it's in the middle of an inning vs. between innings?

 

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7 and 8. never done these but see no problem with the tactic.

You might want to prepare your parents for this tactic. You should have heard the "what is he DOING" cries the first time Ted called for leaving early to get the third out. It turned the inning over and we were able to win the game, but the immediate reaction from the fans showed they weren't aware of the time situation.

 

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A wise man once told me that if we can't win it in the regular time allotted, not doing any of what is listed, we don't deserve to win it...

 

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Carol ... I haven't bought into #7 and #8, at least yet ... goes against my general thoughts about what coaches should do and/or what it teaches the girls. On the one hand, I acknowledge that it may be smart because you're looking to start fresh the next inning with no outs, but in the case of at least #7 aren't you more or less telling the girl at bat to fail on purpose because you don't have the confidence in her to get on base? Do kids really get that? And even if the parent understands the strategy, how do they feel about you asking their kid to do that, especially if it doesn't ultimately result in a win? Maybe it's different if they're 10 or if they're 18??

 

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By the way, I experienced my first "finish the inning plus one more" format a few weeks back, and really liked it ... thanks for implementing this at your tournament, Todd!

This solution to the timed format makes the most sense to me.

I am happy to say that no coach DD has ever played for has ever done #1, #3, #4, #6. As a parent, I would not have noticed the others, (probably), except #8 and I would have been . I won't now if it ever happens.

 

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Honestly - I don't like any stalling tactics. Stepping off the base to end route in progress is not a bad thing. Frankly after 14u softball I don't see this being done often. If older teams are doing it they generally aren't very good. I know coaches will say they have to do what ever they think helps their team - they owe it to them. But in reality they are placing themselves into the game...and that shouldn't be their roles. Let the kids decide the game.

 

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BTW - finish the inning plus one is the best.

 

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1) If it's a legal conference in the first inning, then it's a legal conference in the last inning. There is no rule that allows an umpire to deny a coach a legal conference with a player. However...if we're getting close to a game-ending time issue, thirty seconds is about as long as it's going to go before it gets broken up.

2) Same as above.

3) Again...as long as it's a legal substitution, no rule prevents this. Umpire should strictly enforce the one-minute time limit for warm-up pitches.

4) Remind defensive coach that if his pitcher purposely violates a rule after being warned, then she may be ejected. Also remind that illegal tactics designed to delay the game can result in a forfeit.

5) Legal and, in some circumstances, a good viable strategy.

6) See #4: Remind coach about tactics designed to delay the game and their consequences.

7) There's no rule against swinging and missing.

8) Runners have the right to leave the base whenever they choose- even if it results in an out.

I'm no big fan of time limits either, but if you sign up to play games that use them, then you have to expect some of these issue to come up. To me, since there is a time limit, then strategies for managing the clock to your advantage can be legitimate. The rules prevent illegal tactics to delay or hasten the game. As an umpire, I can address illegal tactics. There's not much I can do if the team isn't doing anything illegal.

 

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Mark ... that's basically my point about the adult coach's role in a kid's game. It's hard to judge exactly where to draw the line. The only thing I've ever done in the past was asking players to take pitches until they got a strike, and I felt a little guilty doing that, though I also have them do that at other times when they're just being too impatient hitting, or if the pitcher is having difficulty throwing strikes.

 

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Carol ... I haven't bought into #7 and #8, at least yet ... goes against my general thoughts about what coaches should do and/or what it teaches the girls. On the one hand, I acknowledge that it may be smart because you're looking to start fresh the next inning with no outs, but in the case of at least #7 aren't you more or less telling the girl at bat to fail on purpose because you don't have the confidence in her to get on base? Do kids really get that? And even if the parent understands the strategy, how do they feel about you asking their kid to do that, especially if it doesn't ultimately result in a win? Maybe it's different if they're 10 or if they're 18??

You are absolutely NOT telling the girl at bat that you don't have confidence in her nor are you saying anything negative to the girl on 3rd base if you have her leave early. What you are saying is that you are down by multiple runs and the odds are that there simply aren't enough outs left in the inning to score multiple times. This tactic can also be used when you have gone ahead in the inning in those tournaments that "revert back" if the inning is not completed, though thankfully there are fewer and fewer of those around these days.

If you are down by only one run and there is time for the batter at the plate to hit with a girl on third, then you are probably going to go ahead and hit. It's just a matter of percentage odds that you are going to score.

We've never had a parent complain and I don't believe that there is any "cheating" involved. How is this any different than asking a young lady to lay down a sacrifice bunt? She is going to be out 90% of the time if she gets the bunt down, but you do that to maximize the scoring potential.

 

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Bretman ... it's good to have the rules perspective for sure, but to me this is much more about respect for the game, sportmanship and teaching the girls than it is about the rules. On the other hand, if some other well-respected coaches say hey, I do this and I don't think it crosses the line, it will make me re-think a little about what I need to do to keep my team on an even playing field. Suffice it to say that I would never consider #1, #3, #4 or #6 no matter what another coach did.

 

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@Jeff:

All kinds of examples have come to me in contemplating your comments. Do you ever pinch hit for a weaker batter when you have the winning run at third? Do you ever pinch hit for a batter who simply cannot get the bunt down when you know you need the sacrifice or the squeeze bunt? Do you leave a pitcher in when she is struggling because you don't want to send the wrong message by taking her out? These are all instances where in fact you are making changes because of your assessment of the player's talent at that moment in time. Asking a player to leave early from third base or to strike out on purpose so you don't get bit by an artificial time constraint, in contrast, says nothing about the player's talents.

And I should note that often if you are in the situation of asking the player to make an intentional out, it is because the other team has been stalling, causing you to be in the time dilemma.

 

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Carol ... I definitely get what you're saying and I certainly don't think of those moves as "cheating" ... but I think it is good to discuss. I'm guessing that some of the things you or I would never do might be things that others would and have done, and perhaps they may think a little differently based on the discussion we're having here, maybe not. You make great points about pinch hitting for weaker batters, or bringing in the #1 pitcher to close out a win ... these are all parts of managing a game for sure, albeit a little different than asking a player to make an out ... the sacrifice bunt is perhaps closest to this though there is a purpose of trying to score a run in an inning, as well as the chance that the batter might even get on base herself.

Have I said yet that I hate time limits?

 

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Whew OK, Carol, that makes more sense! Follow-up question to Mad since I respect his opinion as well ... does #3 make any difference if it's in the middle of an inning vs. between innings?

Well I do suppose it matters although it probably wouldn't occur to me to employ any late game delay tactics if we were sitting on a six run lead.