Watered Down

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Often hear about how watered down the teams are now, but it seams like lots of coaches have had enough and are calling it quits by 14u????? Thoughts?

 

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I think there are a coaches that feel they have enough knowledge to get thru 12u and then they feel they can't take the team any further. IDK.

 

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I do not think as a whole things are watered down. There are more players playing and more teams and that is a good thing...

I remember 11 years ago, when I first got involved in fastpitch the level of play in our area at the 16U and above level was pretty weak. Now there are several strong teams/organizations in our surrounding area and every year I see better development / coaching starting at the youngest levels.

As far as coaches leaving after 14U...
At 16 and above it takes more work for those looking to take players to the next level... By this I mean the coach building their own profiles/coach connections,
Building a plan for their players and making sure they are following it...Dealing with the temperament of the players/parent etc, as they also work though the process of trying to go to the next level...

 

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I think there are a coaches that feel they have enough knowledge to get thru 12u and then they feel they can't take the team any further. IDK.

I think that is part of it and also that they are just burned out by that time.

 

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Following on CoachDennis' comments:

15U/16U is also the age were a lot of girls drop out of competitive softball due to other interests, jobs, and social pressures. At this age girls start narrowing down their college choices to focus on getting in front of the programs they believe they're interested in. Doing this requires that the girls start looking for and attending college camps offered by the schools they're looking at as well as working more on their skills in their spare time. To many, this equates to spending a lot of time without their social clique; for all it means making choices everyday on whether spend time with friends or spend time working on skills - the lucky ones have teammates for friends and thereby a support group that makes working on skills more enjoyable.

 

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I think there are a coaches that feel they have enough knowledge to get thru 12u and then they feel they can't take the team any further. IDK.

As Harry Callahan said, "A man's got to know his limitations." Eastwood- A Man's Got to Know his Limitations - YouTube

Out here, some coaches give it up so their DD can play for a team that offers more than they can do themself. The 16u team that won all their games at the Demarini Invitational, Team Mizuno, was originally assembled 2 years ago as a 14u OC Batbuster team by taking players from 3 top 12u teams and adding a few 13yo players. The dads for 4 of the players used to run accomplished teams.

BTW, the Team Mizuno org was formed last April/May with 2 teams from OC Batbusters. They will be a formidable org next year with the addition of numerous established coaches and teams, including Mark Campbell and his Victory USA 98 team.

 

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After talking to many who used to coach but don't anymore, I think coaches just get sick of volunteering all their time and money to get cr@pped on year after year by unrealistic parents and decide it's just not worth the trouble or the stress. Parents sometimes forget that 90% of the coaches out there are volunteering their time and are NOT getting paid for coaching and putting up with all the bull that comes along with it.

Combining cores from 2 or more teams to produce a "super team" is good in theory, but has alot of potential for problems. Usually your cores have the strongest players who are generally part of the battery and infield. When you combine 3 teams worth of cores, depending on who the coaches are, somebody is going to be upset about not only playing time but positions also. Why stay and play left field on the super team when you could be the starting shortstop for another good team? That is when the problems start and you start losing players. To make that work you need 12-13 players and parents who are more concerned with the development of the team than what is best for each player and that is a hard thing to find!!!

 

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So Cal Dad touched on this but I do know a lot of coaches come to a realization that their kid is better off being coached by someone other than dad. It may or may not have to do with the coaches limitations vs. the player's goals and aspirations. Isn't 14 the age where kids realize they know everything and parents are stupid? Not that I would know anything about that.......

 

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Not to ruffle feathers but parents also spent a lot of time and energy and money with regard to travel ball. No, many coaches dont get paid monetarily but do get a kick back by allowing their dd to play every inning of every game throughout the season at the position of their choosing. And honestly, I'm not sure how many parents are more concerned with the development of the whole team vs the development of their own dd first.

 

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I'm sure it's a combo of all of the above. For me it's always been the more the merrier. I think it's elitist to consider teams watered down because more girls are giving it a try.

 

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After talking to many who used to coach but don't anymore, I think coaches just get sick of volunteering all their time and money to get cr@pped on year after year by unrealistic parents and decide it's just not worth the trouble or the stress. Parents sometimes forget that 90% of the coaches out there are volunteering their time and are NOT getting paid for coaching and putting up with all the bull that comes along with it.

Combining cores from 2 or more teams to produce a "super team" is good in theory, but has alot of potential for problems. Usually your cores have the strongest players who are generally part of the battery and infield. When you combine 3 teams worth of cores, depending on who the coaches are, somebody is going to be upset about not only playing time but positions also. Why stay and play left field on the super team when you could be the starting shortstop for another good team? That is when the problems start and you start losing players. To make that work you need 12-13 players and parents who are more concerned with the development of the team than what is best for each player and that is a hard thing to find!!!

Sounds to me like someone who has "been there, done that". A very realistic real world point of view. Coaching a youth softball team takes nerves of steel, an iron stomach and 4" thick skin - and I haven't even touched on the game knowledge and people skills required. I'll end by saying: "Thank you to all the coaches who persevere through the madness and have given our daughters a huge opportunity".

 

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Not to ruffle feathers but parents also spent a lot of time and energy and money with regard to travel ball. No, many coaches dont get paid monetarily but do get a kick back by allowing their dd to play every inning of every game throughout the season at the position of their choosing. And honestly, I'm not sure how many parents are more concerned with the development of the whole team vs the development of their own dd first.

Parents absolutely put in alot of time, money, and energy to travel ball...without them there would be no players. But just imagine multiplying that time, money, and effort by a million AND being responsible for all the other players, parents, paperwork, team performance, problems and issues, equipment, practice facilities and times, tournament schedules, etc....and doing it all for nothing. Most parents who sit back and complain about every little thing has NO idea what coaching in travel ball entails because if they did, they wouldn't be so quick to gripe.

The kickback of having your kid play every inning of every game in the position of your choosing only works if you are a daddy/mommyball coach. There are alot of very good coaches out there who are NOT daddy/mommyball coaches and are more concerned about the success of the team than the individual success of their dd's. Alot of times those coaches will sit their dd's first even though they shouldn't be the ones sitting just to avoid the stigma.

That is the problem with the super teams and why Ohio can't quite catch up to the year round states, most parents ARE concerned with the development of their own kids as opposed to the development of the team. It's the nature of the beast.

 

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Combining cores from 2 or more teams to produce a "super team" is good in theory, but has alot of potential for problems. Usually your cores have the strongest players who are generally part of the battery and infield. When you combine 3 teams worth of cores, depending on who the coaches are, somebody is going to be upset about not only playing time but positions also. Why stay and play left field on the super team when you could be the starting shortstop for another good team? That is when the problems start and you start losing players. To make that work you need 12-13 players and parents who are more concerned with the development of the team than what is best for each player and that is a hard thing to find!!!

It definitely isn't for the inexperienced - especially with 18 players. The key here is the head coach, Mike Stith, has extensive experience assembling and managing top teams with large rosters (15+) like most top programs have, including the Bandits. He didn't take players just hoping they'd be okay with changing or playing multiple positions. The rosters for these teams are assembled similar to how colleges do it with the obvious exceptions of colleges have to manage their scholarships and plan further out.

Stith also makes sure everyone gets enough playing time, which isn't that difficult given the high percentage of players already committed (75+%) and the ability of the 2nd string. Who do you think gets the majority of playing time at showcases? For instance, at the Demarini Invitational the 1st string started against the better teams and the 2nd string started against the weaker teams. He then substitutes players depending on how the game is going.

The players have to learn to deal with the large roster like they will in college. They have to compete for playing time and that is a great motivator to work hard on their own. In return, they are getting the best preparation and exposure for playing in college. They also get to win major events like Boulder Indy 16U (Longmont) and be a top contender for national championships like PGF.

 

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Not to ruffle feathers but parents also spent a lot of time and energy and money with regard to travel ball. No, many coaches dont get paid monetarily but do get a kick back by allowing their dd to play every inning of every game throughout the season at the position of their choosing. And honestly, I'm not sure how many parents are more concerned with the development of the whole team vs the development of their own dd first.

Umm karma, my dd has the fewest PA and field time than anyone on my team. I understand what you are saying, but it isnt always the case. Parents, for the most part, can only see the world according to their dd; i have witnessed some selfish and stupid actions by parents and the ones hurt the most are the players.

 

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Parents absolutely put in alot of time, money, and energy to travel ball...without them there would be no players. But just imagine multiplying that time, money, and effort by a million AND being responsible for all the other players, parents, paperwork, team performance, problems and issues, equipment, practice facilities and times, tournament schedules, etc....and doing it all for nothing. Most parents who sit back and complain about every little thing has NO idea what coaching in travel ball entails because if they did, they wouldn't be so quick to gripe.

The kickback of having your kid play every inning of every game in the position of your choosing only works if you are a daddy/mommyball coach. There are alot of very good coaches out there who are NOT daddy/mommyball coaches and are more concerned about the success of the team than the individual success of their dd's. Alot of times those coaches will sit their dd's first even though they shouldn't be the ones sitting just to avoid the stigma.

That is the problem with the super teams and why Ohio can't quite catch up to the year round states, most parents ARE concerned with the development of their own kids as opposed to the development of the team. It's the nature of the beast.

I'm with you on this one, Klump. Right down to the last letter. I've seen coaches go overboard trying to avoid the stigma only to see parents re-direct their negativity to some other issue. There will always be critics for the reasons you mention regardless of the issue.

I have a greater appreciation for those parents that buy into our program unconditionally. They are out there and need to know that they are appreciated.

 

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After talking to many who used to coach but don't anymore, I think coaches just get sick of volunteering all their time and money to get cr@pped on year after year by unrealistic parents and decide it's just not worth the trouble or the stress. Parents sometimes forget that 90% of the coaches out there are volunteering their time and are NOT getting paid for coaching and putting up with all the bull that comes along with it.

I think the head of the nail has been hit!^

 

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Klump for office in 2012 I approved this message!

 

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Time away from home has to be on top of the list. For me, the time consumed is huuuuuge. Not having time to clean the shower... vacuum.... avoid the grass and trimming... this is by far the best way to avoid all of that, so till I get tired of coaching due to lack of time, lack of energy, lack of smiles back from the DD's... I'll let my grass grown through the neighbors fence and overlook the dust. Just so that the remote control is clean and the air-conditioning is working at 65 degrees when we come home. I'm good!!!

Seriously, for many that walk away it's a true combination of all things like: stress, organizational issues (team and the org), player injuries, drama, time away from work, lack of family vacation time, scheduling make-up practices, fighting for indoor facilities, pushing the girls even when you are sick and tired, and the list goes on and on. And, by the time you get to 14u a coach could very well into his 4-6 year of coaching depending upon where they started and when. Add all those together... that could make the white towel being thrown in quite easy to do after years of the mess.

 

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Ther also comes a time when your DD is having trouble seperating Dad and Coach, and that is when it is time to pass her on to someone else who she will have no trouble taking direction from.

 

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I have been coaching for 28 years now, and have absolutely met some great parents every single year I've coached ... it's one of the things that's kept me coming back. I met some truly amazing parents this past year. But with that being said, it also seems to me that in some respects things are gradually getting worse. I don't know, maybe it's just my patience with it as I get older, but it just seems like more and more parents have no value for the volunteer coaches or for the team aspect of the game ... it's all about their kid and they don't even try to hide that fact.

I have always expected a lot of parents to be biased about their kids' playing abilities, and I expect many of them to internally care more about how their kid does than how the team does, as that seems to tend to be just human nature. But I have also expected them to respect the volunteer coaches at all times, and to use those opportunities when they're not happy to teach their kids something about the value of team and sportsmanship, or the importance of working harder. But instead I see some of them throwing temper tantrums when their kid plays less than they expect and some telling their kids who might otherwise be just fine, how bad the coaches are, etc. to the point that they quit or threaten to quit. In the meantime, the coaches are spending a lot of money on travel, a ton of time away from their family or other activities they enjoy doing, and racking up a whole lot of wear and tear on their cars.

I'm personally still doing it because I love it ... I love the game, I love the kids and seeing them progress, and I enjoy the social interaction with a majority of the parents as well ... but it's not going to take a whole lot more parent issues to get me and some other coaches I know to the point where we say the heck with it, this year is the last.