Bretman Help!!!!!!!!!!

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Bretman!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slappers with 2 strikes, how do determine strike 3, if it is a bunt, slap, or drag on a foul tip. Not sure if I asked the question right. I know if the square to bunt and foul it off it is an out. What about a drag? What is the rule that make a slap a slap and a bunt a bunt?

Had a slapper over the weekend at All-stars called out twice when she fouled a ball with 2 strikes. The wonderful and best umpire in the world, just ask him, who also is an all American left handed hitter, slapper, and bunt expert (again just ask him) said she was bunting. Feet were moving and bat was coming forward. Just need help understanding from someone that actually knows the rules and does not claim he wrote them.

 

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Slappers have to have thick skin, somebody is always complaining about something they are doing. From being out of the box, to the famous slap hitter strike call when the ball is 6" outside the black. The life of a good slap hitter is a rough one!

I'm anxious to read Bret's take on this!

 

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First of all the position of the hands are irrelevant to bunt or slap but this is a judgment call, what did the batter do.

A bunt does not involve a "swinging" of the bat, ie moving just the barrel of the bat forward toward the ball, a slap does. A bunt is primarily an attempt to "tap" the ball with the bat stationary or the barrel and the handle moving in the same direction and at the same speed. A slap is usually a short chopping motion or quick short swing. The barrel moving forward of the handle.

If the batter was moving toward the pitcher and the the barrel of the bat came forward to the ball it is slap.

it is a judgment call by the PU, some call it closer then others.

 

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I'm sure Bretman will tell us that it's purely a judgment call. My take is that umpires should be EXTREMELY reluctant to call a player out for attempting to bunt and missing the ball with two strikes. Why? Because everybody knows that bunting with two strikes is rarely done. When it IS done, the batter usually squares around and really tries to bunt just to move a runner--often because the coach is determined to have her execute. Still, some batters who "slap" sometimes don't swing very hard or sort of do a check swing. Those are the ones who are vulnerable to a "bad" call. In those cases, they get what they get. Slappers should be aware that when they have two strikes, they need to leave no doubt that they are swinging the bat.

 

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My call would be that a drag is an out on a 3rd strike, assuming that it is a true drag....the fact that the feet is moving should have no bearing on it. Let's see what Bret says.
If the bat is moving through the strike zone as it does for a slapper, than it would not be considered a bunt and it would not be an out. SB is right, some umpires just don't understand.... just like some coaches don't understand.
I think it is very important that if an umpire is wrong, that it is brought to the attention of the umpire assigner, UIC or the District Commisioner of the sanctioning body. We all want to improve the game and by correcting errors by umpires and coaches will definitely cut down on the arguments to allow the girls to play.

 

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The batter was slapping, and is very new to slapping. Feet and barrel were going forward. I understand it is a judgement call but there has to be a rule to guide the judgement. I need to tell the hitter what she did wrong so she can work on it, but right now I am not sure what to tell her or her slapping coach.

 

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Drag bunt is a out. Bret has been involved in another fast pitch site on this same subject. Breaking the wrists has nothing to do with the rule and gets many confused. She is probably not finishing , which will make a new slapper appear to be bunting. If this is the umpire I think it is ,Brent and I talked about him last year in terms of the batters box. He has it in for slappers

 

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Basically what SBFamily said....

Start with the rule book definition of "a bunt".

Bunt: A pitched ball that is intentionally tapped with the bat, slowly, within the infield.

Generally, that is not what a slapper is trying to accomplish. Slappers are usually trying to hit the ball sharply and routinely hit the ball hard to an infielder or even over the infielders.

"Tapping the ball slowly" usually involves holding the bat stationary in front of the pitch and little bat movement. Slapping usually involves the bat moving from the batter's rear shoulder, toward the ball, in an arcing motion that resembles a swing.

Saying "generally" or "usually" might sound kind of vague, but there is no rule that says the bat has to move a certain distance or fashion to be ruled a swing, or that the batter's wrists need to break, or that the bat has to cross over the plate. Whether the batter's action was "a swing" or "a bunt" is up to the umpire's judgment. You can only hope that the umpire bases his judgment on an understanding of the actual rules and how they are usually interpreted!

 

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thank you sir. I understand but not sure it changes what she did right or wrong. She is a new slapper and will only get better

 

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So a drag bunt is just that then, a bunt attempt Correct?

 

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My take on this question would focus on where the bat finishes. A slap swing would bring the head of the bat completely through the strike zone. The wrists would break as the bat is turned over at the end of the swing. To someone else's point - the intent is to contact the ball sharply and hit it down into the ground (to get a big bounce) or through past charging infielders. A foul ball with this type of swing is definitely a foul ball.

If the batter is simply advancing the bat to a point where the head of the bat is across the plate, I could call that a bunt, even if the batter is moving through the box and the bat was brought forward quickly from the ready position. The bat speed may impart some momentum on the ball, but the bat is NOT moving through the zone, but rather is held rigid in the hands and allowed to contact the ball. Be is a classic bunt or a drag/push bunt, this is still a bunt.

The foot movement is irrelevant as long as the batter remains legal in the box. The way the batter presents the bat (slowly or quickly) is irrelevant. I would look at the position of the bat on contact, and determine if the bat head moves through the swing plane, or if it was relatively stationary when it contacted the ball.

 

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Mark, you nailed what happened exactly. It was a slap attempt but being a new slapper the speed of the bat was slow and she was trying to make contact. She did pull the bat around in the finish. But it is a judgement call.

 

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I does get pretty frustrating trying to make an out with a slapper fouling off 17 pitches.......

 

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Throw in a one handed downward motion and really make their heads explode that it was a bunt, but it's in the interpretation is all you can go with and learn what each ump will let you get away with and go from there.....