default
Member
are you sure that someone isn't smokin' crack trying to make those analogies all work out
Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Mandatory Mask..Coaches or Parents Decision?
default
Member
Do they even make Lucky Strikes anymore?
default
Member
Uncomfortable question, yes? Just something to wrap your head around.
If anyone's smokin' crack, it's probably hidden in those Lucky Strikes.
And yes - Luckies are still sold in the U.S. to a very small customer base. (courtesy of Wikipedia - I was curious)
If anyone's smokin' crack, it's probably hidden in those Lucky Strikes.
And yes - Luckies are still sold in the U.S. to a very small customer base. (courtesy of Wikipedia - I was curious)
default
Member
Boy ,am I glad that I started this. My original intent was to see how many people out there have seen High School players with no true skills playing skilled positions without the mask. These kid's are awfull to say the least, as far as softball goes. These kid's probably don't even know the risk they are being subjected to at the corners or on the mound. Willing to bet the parent's of most of these individuals are too. Changing the bats and balls is the right thing to do, we just aren't there yet. The game face is available! Once again, I do agree with equipment changes need to be made, but for all the kid's serious about playing, they are not going to Wal-Mart for the Pink JF Bat. Nobody in their right mind is gonna give an opponent the upper-hand regarding equipment. Bet your team had a couple of Rocket Launchers, huh? So I stick by my original post, mask should be mandated in High School by the COACH or AD, to protect the ignorance and lack of knowledge that goes along with High School sports. Most of these kid's have no hopes of playing beyond High School, keep them safe during that time!
default
Member
My dd wears one religously but not because I force her to wear it or becaus I don't think she has the reflexes of a cat, which she most certainly does not. She wears hers because when she was 9 she was in a fall league where it was mandatory for the pitcher to wear one. She was the only pitcher on the team so she got pretty used to wearing one and has ever since. I believe she could play just as well without it but it has become a bit of a safety blanket for her.
I agree with Len and Sammy, the hot bats and balls are the real problem. Putting a mask on the player will not stop the bats from changing the game. If you are really concerned with protecting the girls from serious injury you would be working on the bats and balls, not the masks.
I agree with Len and Sammy, the hot bats and balls are the real problem. Putting a mask on the player will not stop the bats from changing the game. If you are really concerned with protecting the girls from serious injury you would be working on the bats and balls, not the masks.
default
Member
Absolutely we're still using them. When our fielders put the masks on we're not worried about OUR bats! What team will voluntarily place itself at a disadvantage by reducing it's offensive weaponry? NONE.
I know you want us all to rise up and create a movement to change the bats and balls. What would such a movement consist of? I really have no idea but you seem to have some answers. You feel so strongly about it, start the movement and see who jumps in. I'm not saying you're wrong but talking about a movement and starting one are two different things.
My point earlier when I asked about why baseball made the change had to do with lawsuits. Isn't that really what causes safety related changes? Past lawsuits or fear of new ones? And for that to happen, someone must be damaged and then willing to take up the legal battle. Often these battles take years and thousands in legal fees. I guess my thinking is - "if it happens, it happens - in the meantime our kids continue to wear the mask."
default
Member
default
Member
It looks like the NCAA made the right choice in baseball - maybe for the wrong reasons, but the changes worked. Maybe softball will follow suit....
http://www.dispatch.com/live/conten...w-bats-changing-balance-of-power.html?sid=101
http://www.dispatch.com/live/conten...w-bats-changing-balance-of-power.html?sid=101
default
Member
"Absolutely we're still using them. When our fielders put the masks on we're not worried about OUR bats! What team will voluntarily place itself at a disadvantage by reducing it's offensive weaponry? NONE."
I covered this in a previous post. I referenced a gas mask...
"I know you want us all to rise up and create a movement to change the bats and balls. What would such a movement consist of? I really have no idea but you seem to have some answers. You feel so strongly about it, start the movement and see who jumps in. I'm not saying you're wrong but talking about a movement and starting one are two different things."
As I stated in a previous post, my daughter is no longer playing the sport. For complete disclosure, I still have 2 '04 Rocket Tech bats - the ones that started the current trend. Had I known then what I know now, she wouldn't have used them. No kids wore masks then, and it wasn't because parents/coaches were oblivious to injuries, but as we can see - the proliferation of these bats combined with hard core balls has changed all that. Education about cause/prevention is what gave me a different perspective. If my daughter was still playing today, I would absolutely become involved in "starting a movement". I would never claim for a minute to have all the answers, but I do know where I'd start. It's really not that hard to figure out. Just like the steps used in helping your daughter get better at her game, a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
"My point earlier when I asked about why baseball made the change had to do with lawsuits. Isn't that really what causes safety related changes? Past lawsuits or fear of new ones? And for that to happen, someone must be damaged and then willing to take up the legal battle. Often these battles take years and thousands in legal fees. I guess my thinking is - "if it happens, it happens - in the meantime our kids continue to wear the mask."
It's unfortunate and sad that litigation would come into play to solve this. Actually, that's the HARD way - the final straw. The easy, although uncomfortable way is to look in the mirror - and remember every time you purchase and use a bat knowing that it creates an unacceptable risk, you are contributing to the "problem". This solution does not take years, but it does take consumer education, which is a nasty expression to marketing departments. Wearing fielders masks AND buying/using a certain type of bat is definitely a parental decision. "If it happens, it happens"...
Well, I think I've exhaustively made my point and stated my opinion - and I'm finished beating this horse.
default
Member
Here is the link to the ASA site that controls bat and ball standards and explains how it works and gives examples. It is only 6 pages and is not difficult to understand and may open your understanding of reaction time the pitchers and infielders actually have.
If you want to gain an understanding of what an infielder must be feeling, set up a pitching machine at just 70 MPH and confirm it with a radar gun. Then start your player at 90 feet and after each catch move forward one step. Continue forward at your own risk!
I would have a face mask on! Remember the pitched speed combined with the bat speed will or could be 90 plus for some players however it gives you an idea of what the pitcher and corners must be feeling and seeing.
http://downloads.asasoftball.com/about/pdf/ASA_Bat_Ball_Certification_Program_Overview.pdf
Howard
If you want to gain an understanding of what an infielder must be feeling, set up a pitching machine at just 70 MPH and confirm it with a radar gun. Then start your player at 90 feet and after each catch move forward one step. Continue forward at your own risk!
I would have a face mask on! Remember the pitched speed combined with the bat speed will or could be 90 plus for some players however it gives you an idea of what the pitcher and corners must be feeling and seeing.
http://downloads.asasoftball.com/about/pdf/ASA_Bat_Ball_Certification_Program_Overview.pdf
Howard
default
Member
Insurance companies are eventually going to get in on this and mandate the use of masks. Many rec leagues have had to construct ByLaws to this effect. There is a big push by The American Opthomalogic Assoc. to get this done.
default
Member
Well, I think I've exhaustively made my point and stated my opinion - and I'm finished beating this horse.[/QUOTE]
Nicely stated, this is a tread that won't die.
Nicely stated, this is a tread that won't die.
default
Member
default
Member
default
Member
Sammy good read....
At clinics we have set up bat speed equipment using the Swing Speed Radar Unit. Al Dilz, the inventor lives a few minutes from the house and I work with his grandson. His unit uses Doppler radar and measures from the sweet spot of the bat verses others who use the end of the bat which reads up to 10 to 15 percent higher.
Bat speed and swing mechanics are often over looked and as you have stated technology of the bats is often given or credited as too a hitters success or failure. Now it will be the talk of the town when the hitters will be forced to learn how to swing more efficiently.
Asking about bat speed is like asking the parent of a pitcher how fast they throw and the standard is 60 to 65 MPH and then when you gun them it is 55 MPH or less. Ask them what their bat speed is and most probably have no clue. Now ask them what effects it and how to measure the improvement. By the way Albert P swing speed is 86.99 and Crystls is 78 MPH.
The pitchers and corners are at an unsafe advantage in my opinion especially with the bats at its current state and if I had a daughter she would be wearing one to allow her to develop her skills, which in my opinion starts around 14 to 15 years old.
Sometimes others learn from a thread like this verses it being considered beating a dead horse....sometimes beating something can make you feel better also.
Howard
default
Member
If we had the powers to change the bats and balls, I am sure some of us would do it. For the most part, that is beyond our control unless we wanted to do a grass root effort to get a nationwide petition drive.
What is within our control is to use the mask.... either mandated by parents or coaches. Unfortunately after reading the article of a "Mom" giving her 8 year old daughter botox, I have re-confirmed by faith that some parents don't have the common sense to do what is right. So, then it is left up to the coach or the softball program to mandate it, if they think that is the appropriate thing to do.
p.s. Tnts Dad... can I borrow your beat the dead horse picture?? I am sure that some of my coaches have used that phrase when I have talked or sent out e-mails.
What is within our control is to use the mask.... either mandated by parents or coaches. Unfortunately after reading the article of a "Mom" giving her 8 year old daughter botox, I have re-confirmed by faith that some parents don't have the common sense to do what is right. So, then it is left up to the coach or the softball program to mandate it, if they think that is the appropriate thing to do.
p.s. Tnts Dad... can I borrow your beat the dead horse picture?? I am sure that some of my coaches have used that phrase when I have talked or sent out e-mails.
default
Member
Seriously??
default
Member
I like the masks. I definitely view it as a parent and player decision though. IMO.
default
Member
So, after the first KY game today, during highlights, ESPN showed the girl from Baylor fouling the ball off her bat into her face without a protective mask on the helmet. They explained how gruesome it was, and how she suffered MULTIPLE FACIAL FRACTURES. The anchor then throws it over to Stacie Nuveman, NCAA all time HR leader, multiple time Olympian, current SDSU asst coach, yadda yadda yadda, and she basically poo-poos the entire incident in regards to wearing a mask on the batting helmet....I was infuriated!!
She stated how in "youth" levels many organizations are mandating the helmet masks, and then stated how she didn't like them, and thought they were cumbersome. Fine. Leave it at that.
No, she then proceeds with a smirk saying how she makes fun of her players that wear them, and chides them to "toughen up", and that it is "part of the game", and then glazes over the fact that this player BROKE HER FACE, stating that "doctors were going to have to determine if she will be ready to play next weekend if Baylor makes it through".....with a BROKEN FACE!!!
I have posted before, I do NOT agree with the organizational mandate route. I believe it is the individual's or parent's or even a coach's decision. HOWEVER...I think it is deplorable for a giant of the game to use the spotlight of a national forum to deliver that kind of ignorant and misguided message to younger players of all levels during one of the sport's biggest events. Not to mention the validating and putting voice to this ridiculous "unwritten rule" that apparently too many coaches live by.
Shame on you Stacey Nuveman.
OK, soapbox exited.
She stated how in "youth" levels many organizations are mandating the helmet masks, and then stated how she didn't like them, and thought they were cumbersome. Fine. Leave it at that.
No, she then proceeds with a smirk saying how she makes fun of her players that wear them, and chides them to "toughen up", and that it is "part of the game", and then glazes over the fact that this player BROKE HER FACE, stating that "doctors were going to have to determine if she will be ready to play next weekend if Baylor makes it through".....with a BROKEN FACE!!!
I have posted before, I do NOT agree with the organizational mandate route. I believe it is the individual's or parent's or even a coach's decision. HOWEVER...I think it is deplorable for a giant of the game to use the spotlight of a national forum to deliver that kind of ignorant and misguided message to younger players of all levels during one of the sport's biggest events. Not to mention the validating and putting voice to this ridiculous "unwritten rule" that apparently too many coaches live by.
Shame on you Stacey Nuveman.
OK, soapbox exited.
default
Member
LMAO....thats funny!!! Great play on words!!!:lmao:
Similar threads
Pitching and Pitchers Discussion
Facemasks for infielders/pitchers-Mandatory??
- fastpitchfanatic
- Pitching, Hitting, Catching and Fielding
