Travel Ball Playing Time

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Just wondering how playing time typically works on travel teams. Is it similar to varsity ball in high school where there is a set starting lineup and the reserve players rarely play? Or is it more equally divided given the $800-$1000 to join the team? Or is it something else?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

 

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I try to rotate but to win the game I put the best combination I feel on the field in order to win games. May sound harsh but I do not do a line up with the mind set of if sally's parents going to be mad at me if she is not starting or playing her position they think she should. I can remember when my Dd was 8 years old and started playing travel ball; she played one at bat and one inning in the field. She never was disappointed about it and she watch the game and learned a lot by doing that. It happened this weekend: I had a player who did not play an entire game, but I did start her the next. If we are winning by a bunch I will sit my starters (including my DD) to give others playing time. Playing time is NOT guaranteed it is earned.

 

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I'd say it depends on the age group, goals for the team, and what the coach stated at the beginning of the season if he/she mentioned anything about playing time. Some teams are only out for the trophies at all costs, whereas other teams will move the girls around, especially during pool play. At some point, the girls want to win even if they don't get to play all the time, as losing takes its toll. Talk to the coach and see what the situation is - most likely they have a plan that you are not considering.

And remember, this isn't rec ball where everyone gets equal, or almost equal, playing time. Most organizations/coaches expect the girls to practice on their own to get better, and if they don't their playing time will be limited. Think of it as a lesson for the rest of the players life - they will not always get the same raise or promotion as a co-worker, the same grade as a classmate, or the same opportunities as their friends.

 

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A coach I met a few years back put it this way:

Everybody plays during Pool Play. The best nine play in bracket play.

It seems a bit extreme to those riding the pine on Sunday, but it's a philosophically sound idea.

 

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We adopt as our target the goal that regular roster team members will at least play approximately 50% of the total innings that the player attends. This does NOT mean that the player will be in 50% of the innings in each game or even in each tournament, though usually it will work out that during any particular tournament the player will be in the games for at least 50% of that tournament's innings.

As the team has matured, it has gotten in some ways easier to meet the 50% target. The playing skill of all of our team members is very high and the players/parents recognize that other team members deserve PT. If a player is in a hitting slump or having trouble in the field, she and her parents will be more likely to acknowledge to themselves that there is a reason why she might sit more in that particular tournament. Players/parents also recognize that sitting for an entire game may serve the sitting player and the team well in terms of energy conservation (especially true for catchers and pitchers).

Lot of people will say "the best nine play", but I don't think that addresses the reality that players/parents will have different opinions on who the best nine are, that sometimes even the coaching staff won't agree on those best nine, and that families who are paying team fees and incurring significant travel ball expenses are not going to be happy if their player spends more than 50% of total innings on the bench or if nothing was said about PT at tryout time and the family thought PT would be more in line with the number of bodies on the roster (for example, if there are 12 players, each player would receive PT at roughly 3/4s of total innings). And unhappy players/families create a drama that can make coaching much more burdensome that the burden of announcing a PT playing target and keeping an eye on that target throughout the season.

There are teams that can and do put together line-ups for each game with no eye whatsoever to PT. Many of them are in California. And many of the players who sit a lot still get the attention of college coaches because of the team's reputation; that recruiting success can go a long way to softening the drama that might otherwise be created by having the same players sit most of the time. But I think there aren't many teams in Ohio that can pull off the same approach without serious damage to team harmony.

This year for the first time we are coaching a regular roster of 12 players. So far we have not had all 12 players at a tournament. That will happen next week and it will be more difficult to keep an eye on that 50% innings target. But as I said, our families understand that there is no "guarantee" for any particular game or even any particular tournament and we have also stressed that with a roster this big everyone will have to get used to sitting more than in the past.

 

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Wow... how travel ball has changed. With "pay to participate" becoming the norm for high school, and travel ball becoming increasingly expensive, there's a completely different mindset today in both. Used to be that $$$ had absolutely NO connection to "playing time". We always had the philosophy that the ONLY thing the fee (both HS and travel) earned you was a spot on the roster (bench). Anything beyond that was strictly up to the player's desire to be one of the top 9 that could best help the team any given game.

I saw this happening in HS when DD was playing, and never thought it would bleed over to travel ball...

 

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@Sammy:

Did the travel ball teams that your DD played on have the same players sitting over and over, to the tune of playing only in pool games and maybe as few as 10-20% of total innings? Did those players and their families happily accept those roles? If so, I think you were very lucky.

 

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Wow... how travel ball has changed. With "pay to participate" becoming the norm for high school, and travel ball becoming increasingly expensive, there's a completely different mindset today in both. Used to be that $$$ had absolutely NO connection to "playing time". We always had the philosophy that the ONLY thing the fee (both HS and travel) earned you was a spot on the roster (bench). Anything beyond that was strictly up to the player's desire to be one of the top 9 that could best help the team any given game.

I saw this happening in HS when DD was playing, and never thought it would bleed over to travel ball...

got to the west coast where they carry 15 -20 girl's on a roster,They truly have to earn there spot.

 

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I coach 12U and I have 11 young ladies on my roster. EVERYONE gets playing time on Saturday in pool play, we use it as development time for the girls. Everyone bats and gets their shot to earn a spot for Sunday. Sunday play is when we field our best 9 to win the games. The best 9 is different depending on who our battery is and who we are playing so there is never a set field. Playing time is awarded as fairly as possible, but fair in no way means equal.

The team fee in the beginning of the year pays for your spot on the roster, not your position on the field, that must be earned. I think at the younger ages, the coaches should be giving ALL the girls the opportunity to develop and play. When I see 10U teams who only bat 9 or never give their players opportunities to see the infield or sit the same kids over and over......how are you developing these young girls into ball players if you are sitting them all the time and not giving them at bats??? The trophy hunters at the younger ages are pretty damaging to the sport. As they get older though, they need to perform or they will be riding the pine!!

 

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I manage an almost all 9 y.o. 10U team. We are developing, and show flashes of brilliance at times, but then we show that we are 9 and that we are new players. I bat all 11 every chance I get (And T.D.'s, why you don't allow 2 E.P.'s at the 10U level is beyond me) even in elimination play. I move girls around a lot, maybe too much. At the young age, it's about learning the game and developing your skills. I don't know anyone who developed skills on their butt. You can learn a lot from the bench with some 1 on 1 time talking with your coaches, but at some point, you have to do it. At higher levels, you better produce or find a nice cushion to sit on.

 

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@Sammy:

Did the travel ball teams that your DD played on have the same players sitting over and over, to the tune of playing only in pool games and maybe as few as 10-20% of total innings? Did those players and their families happily accept those roles? If so, I think you were very lucky.

The org. my DD played for traditionally had 2 teams in each age group. There were no odd age groups. For instance, at 14u there was the "older" second year team, composed of all 14 yr. olds, then the "younger" team, primarily 13u. Both played 14u in tournaments, so each team had two years eligibility at each age level.

As I recall from 12u on, 12 was the magic roster number including 2 pitchers. Three players were rotated in and out of the lineup according to the team's needs every weekend. Those needs included rest for the starting nine, injuries, etc. But I distinctly remember the coach making it VERY clear that when accepting the roster spot, ALL playing time was based exclusively on that criteria. And those decisions were made exclusively by the coaching staff, period. All the families respected the coach for being very direct and fair. I think that was the glue that made the team a cohesive unit - everyone knew exactly where they stood.

The team's goals were to play as late as possible every Sunday, so as to face the toughest competition and be challenged as a team. That was OUR goal for our DD, and the team's goals matched that - especially when they reached 16u playing in showcases.

I have the mindset that player development at 12u and above is done primarily in a private setting, and team practices are for TEAM development and working on team oriented things - NOT primarily for hitting, pitching or fielding fundamentals. Basically... practice at home. There is just too much to do in a team practice to develop a competitive team, and trying to teach a 12u and above how to throw, pitch, hit and do fundamental fielding in a team practice wastes valuable team practice time. I have always compared this to an orchestra. If a french horn player doesn't know her part (hasn't practiced on her own), rehearsal ISN'T the time to learn it. Therefore, the whole group suffers until she DOES get better.

At 10u, it's a little different scenario, but I think the goal should still be team development based on individual fundamental development. New parents at 10u might rely on the team coach to do everything, thinking this is all they ever need. This is the year that parents need to learn that to succeed, their DD must work outside of games and practices - on their own - to become a better player and win a starting field position. So at 10u, the weaning process starts, and you weed out the kids/families that find out that it is going to take far more time commitment that they are willing to give. Otherwise, at 12u, the entitlement mentality will become a big headache for the whole team.

In a competitive environment, when you put entitlement (for any reason) in the same sentence as team/player development, you open a big can of worms. IMO, at 12u and above, if a kid isn't getting the playing time they THINK they deserve, it may be a sign they are on the wrong team.

 

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4 The Love---- Not sure what age group but.....

A little late in the game to be asking that question... You have about 8 weeks left in the season, before the cycle starts all over again for the 2012 season. That is a question to ask at tryouts, or if she makes the team week 1 in September.

We had been very fortunate when ours played and were told it would be earned to play on Sunday. Pool play the orgs we played for were always fair and developed the ladies and taught them as well. Sunday if they played, they knew they had to step it up, if they wanted to play next Sunday as well. When they aren't playing, they still need to be engaged on the bench, as they could go in any second and need to perform right then, not ramp up to catch up that inning....

We also had great coaches that told the girls, If there is a college coach coming to see you and you want to be at a certain position, they did their darndest to put you there that game they were watching them play. Those are some things you need to know before you sign on with some teams. As CGS stated Goals of the org. are needed to be known, before you sign your family's life away for a year long commitment.

 

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@Sammy:

With your DD having completed a really really successful career as a softball player, I don't know if you have followed a travel ball tournament trend that makes the "play them in pool" philosophy a little harder to use: we are seeing many more four team pools where the winners play the winners and the losers play the losers. That means that if you lose your first pool game you can place no higher than 3rd in the pool. Also, winning that first pool game becomes the only way that you can preserve the possibility of coming out of pool with a #1 seed. Especially when going into a double elimination format, which all qualifiers for USA/ASA are, it's important to get a good seed to help eliminate the risk that you are dropped after the first bracket games to the Losers Bracket with its myriad of games. In this situation, it may make more sense to treat the first pool game as a "Sunday" game and, if successful in obtaining the #1 seed, the first bracket game as a game for including players who are not in the top 9 (assuming that the top 9 is clear).

I also think that when you say you trusted your coach to be fair, that fairness may have included getting girls into Sunday play when they weren't in the clear top 9 but when there was a very high probability that the coach could include them in the Sunday game with a relatively low risk that the team would lose. Our 50% target is intended to make sure that we are not routinely sitting the same players all the time when we could use those players either in pool or on Sunday without significantly changing our odds of winning.

I agree totally with your philosophy that players need to be working hard on their individual games, apart from team practices and in-game play. And I think that if we had a player who wasn't working hard and who dropped far behind the skill level of our other team members, we would have a candid conversation with that player or, depending upon the age group, her parents to say that the 50% playing target isn't going to be applied to protect her from failure to work on her game.

I still go back to the question whether you had players on your teams that sat 80-90% of the time. Our 50% target (which, by the way can easily accommodate keeping your top offensive and defensive players in most game line-ups) is intended to avoid what I think can be a real problem, namely those one to two players who always sit the bench. Unless those players/families went into the team understanding that sitting and providing numbers as injury protection or providing very limited, specialized services (such as pinch running) was to be their role, and that Sunday play was not in the cards for them, you run a very real risk of losing those players mid-season. Playing with only ten players is engaging in a softball version of Russian Roulette.

 

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One caveat to this as well for those teams that pull subs in for a weekend: Subs are secondary players and you better be playing your own girls first and foremost. If you aren't having that courtesy for your own families, those teams should be known publicly.

 

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One caveat to this as well for those teams that pull subs in for a weekend: Subs are secondary players and you better be playing your own girls first and foremost. If you aren't having that courtesy for your own families, those teams should be known publicly.

Disagree. If you are pulling in subs it may mean the difference between playing or dropping out and sitting home. Why should a sub travel to your tourney and be treated as a second citizen? You have to show courtesy to the player and their family who are going out of their way to help you out of a jam. They deserve decent playing time or knowing up front they are coming to sit and spectate.

We have used subs that saved us from sitting home and not playing at all and we have been very grateful and they played with us.

 

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For better or worse, we keep a pretty small roster .... 11 at 16u eek, certainly dicey at times with work, ACT/SAT, college visits, jobs, social life, etc ... not to mention aches, pains, full blown injuries. We have been together for 4 years though with a very dedicated and decently talented bunch, so barring injuries we know what we will have generally, and have good notice if there are issues. We also have a decent sub list of experienced & talented travel ball girls not wanting a full summer commitment for various reasons.

With this "system" we are able to get all players on the regular team roster 70% plus of innings played, usually the pitchers get the least just due to keeping them fresh and given their specialty needs. Everyone plays, and even works at alternative positions for development during Pool Play, a little moreso than Bracket where things get more strategic (and urgent).

We feel like everyone on our team was asked to be on the team because we trust their commitment and abilities, and we owe them development and playing time as long as they show desire and play hard. Many of the girls on our team have been with other more high profile organizations, including the biggest "brands" with positive expereinces, however, this is the "fit" that works with the bunch of personalities that we have now. It has worked well, but we have been lucky to have good solid kids and families who buy into that philosphy, and "feel good" about their softball clan.

That is just to provide an example which may or may not be different. Overall, it is ALL ABOUT THE CLUB. We had no issues whatsoever when she played for a certain club which demanded performance, without mistakes, and winning EVERY game was the expectation. My dd was somewhere between #9-10-11 in the packing order that first year with them, and had to scratch and claw for playing time, and those were her years of greatest incremental improvement ... it's all good, no official answer, just find the right fit for the personality and goals.

 

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Disagree. If you are pulling in subs it may mean the difference between playing or dropping out and sitting home. Why should a sub travel to your tourney and be treated as a second citizen? You have to show courtesy to the player and their family who are going out of their way to help you out of a jam. They deserve decent playing time or knowing up front they are coming to sit and spectate.

We have used subs that saved us from sitting home and not playing at all and we have been very grateful and they played with us.

Must,

Agree totally, and like my long winded philosophical team description above, it is all about communication and understanding the system and setting. We hade to use some subs this weekend, just to field a team due to ACT's this past weekend. They were explained how things would work. They played well, and the team accepted their roles, as did they. One of them stuck around for the rest of the long successful weekend, and we found ways to plug her in, and she did well. I now think she may be a good fit long term, when the needs arise, and/or rostering changes.

Expectations and communication, just treat others how you hope to be treated. Then everyone can make choices, and live with those choices.

 

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@hilliarddad3:

Find myself in the unusual position of disagreeing with you. On the subs/guest players issue, we won't bring players along without playing them. All the reasons for this approach have been set forward by Musty and pickle. With a roster of 12, we didn't expect to need guests this year, but when Dayton Metro got scheduled for so early, State tournament, family commitments, and exams meant we only had 9 regular roster players. Without guest players, we were at real risk of having a injury make us forfeit out of the tourney. To not play the guests at all would, in my opinion, have been wrong.

 

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@Sammy:

With your DD having completed a really really successful career as a softball player, I don't know if you have followed a travel ball tournament trend that makes the "play them in pool" philosophy a little harder to use: we are seeing many more four team pools where the winners play the winners and the losers play the losers. That means that if you lose your first pool game you can place no higher than 3rd in the pool. Also, winning that first pool game becomes the only way that you can preserve the possibility of coming out of pool with a #1 seed. Especially when going into a double elimination format, which all qualifiers for USA/ASA are, it's important to get a good seed to help eliminate the risk that you are dropped after the first bracket games to the Losers Bracket with its myriad of games. In this situation, it may make more sense to treat the first pool game as a "Sunday" game and, if successful in obtaining the #1 seed, the first bracket game as a game for including players who are not in the top 9 (assuming that the top 9 is clear).

I also think that when you say you trusted your coach to be fair, that fairness may have included getting girls into Sunday play when they weren't in the clear top 9 but when there was a very high probability that the coach could include them in the Sunday game with a relatively low risk that the team would lose. Our 50% target is intended to make sure that we are not routinely sitting the same players all the time when we could use those players either in pool or on Sunday without significantly changing our odds of winning.

I agree totally with your philosophy that players need to be working hard on their individual games, apart from team practices and in-game play. And I think that if we had a player who wasn't working hard and who dropped far behind the skill level of our other team members, we would have a candid conversation with that player or, depending upon the age group, her parents to say that the 50% playing target isn't going to be applied to protect her from failure to work on her game.

I still go back to the question whether you had players on your teams that sat 80-90% of the time. Our 50% target (which, by the way can easily accommodate keeping your top offensive and defensive players in most game line-ups) is intended to avoid what I think can be a real problem, namely those one to two players who always sit the bench. Unless those players/families went into the team understanding that sitting and providing numbers as injury protection or providing very limited, specialized services (such as pinch running) was to be their role, and that Sunday play was not in the cards for them, you run a very real risk of losing those players mid-season. Playing with only ten players is engaging in a softball version of Russian Roulette.

I think your 2nd paragraph probably explains how it worked for them. It was similar in concept to a college team with utility players. Those 3 "extra" players were extremely valuable team assets. They would often sub in when another play was struggling at the plate, or a kid tweaked their ankle, etc. I remember many times digging out of a loser's bracket (Compuware, Sluggerfest), and without those players, it would have been impossible. These kids were great athletes, and they accepted the challenge to battle for a position, and it wasn't just as a pinch runner, etc. I don't ever remember a player sitting even 75% of the time. If so, I would have expected them not to be on the roster the following year. I remember we even had a couple position players who were decent at giving a few innings pitching to save the two primary pitchers on very hot days. IMO, that's what makes a successful group.

Yes, the coach played the odds, and knew what games were "throw aways" in pool, and could play those utility players more often in them. He was VERY good at shifting players into spots where the team could be successful. That's just good game management, but I think it was done more for saving the starters than to appease parents.

 

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Pickle, CGS,
The girls on the team should be playing first before subs. Not that subs shouldn't play when they come, don't get me wrong, mine did that for a week up there once with people we didn't even know, had a blast and contributed, but I would hope she didn't play before others who paid all year. We weren't with her that week, so I don't know...That's just my own opinion. I'd hate for her to make someone else sit. If she got in and got some reps and contributed great, but as a non paying parent, I wouldn't expect she'd play every game like some people do. I know some who's kids sat the entire weekend at major tournies, while the subs played the whole thing...