What is an error to you ?

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From NCAA: (thanks imawesom...)

14.2.9 Error: A misplay charged to a defensive player when it is judged by the official scorer to have prolonged the time at bat (causes one or more pitches to be thrown) of an offensive player or contributed to an offensive player being declared safe.

Does a "misplay" have to be physical? I feel they can be mental errors too.

 

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Yes, as far as I know, such a misplay would have to be physical. An example of this would be when a fielder drops a pop fly in foul territory that was easily catchable. Even though no runner reached base or advanced on that particular play, it prolongs the at bat and may allow the batter to reach or a runner to advance. One of my DD's fellow college pitchers had it cost her ERA quite a few points when the official scorer didn't rule such a play an error a few years back. I went to our SID on this, but they couldn't do anything about it since we were away and the person who kept the score didn't know it was an error at the time, and couldn't remember the play when asked about it later.

 

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So, just to be crystal clear, let's consider this one: Easy ground ball hit to 1B, 1B fields the ball cleanly and throws it to the pitcher without making a play on the batter/runner and batter/runner safely reaches 1B is no error against the fielder and a single for the batter? Ugh, I don't like that a bit. I don't want the batter getting the hit (especially if she's on my team because I don't want to have stats present a better picture than reality) and I want the fielder getting the error (especially if she's on my team for the reason already stated).

I know that this scenario should never happen and if it happens often, the wrong person is at 1B but... my point is that mental errors should be counted as errors if we are to use stats as as representing some level of reality. Addressing the ERA situation you stated above, that runner in my scenario is on by a hit and if she scores, it goes against the pitcher's ERA. That's not cool.

 

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TR ... in the situation you describe, if there was another runner on base and 1B decided to hold ball and not make a play on the batter, then that could be ruled as a fielder's choice. But assuming no one is on base, then per the scoring guidelines, I think you have to call it a hit. As you say, that should never really happen though. If you want to call it an error as a coach and those stats are only being used for your own use, then go for it.

 

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TR ... in the situation you describe, if there was another runner on base and 1B decided to hold ball and not make a play on the batter, then that could be ruled as a fielder's choice. But assuming no one is on base, then per the scoring guidelines, I think you have to call it a hit. As you say, that should never really happen though. If you want to call it an error as a coach and those stats are only being used for your own use, then go for it.

I have to disagree. The definition for "error" per NCAA is a misplay charged to a defensive player that contributed to an offensive player being declared safe. It doesn't say "misfield" or "misthrow". It simply says "misplay". Therefore in this case the 1B had a misplay by not making an out when an out could have been made AND it was the only play available on the batted ball.


Len

 

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Mental mistakes are not errors.
otherwise
good throw hits a runner, umpire or bat.
SECTION 22—NO ERROR IS CHARGED
No error is charged to a fielder in the following situations:
14.22.1 When a ball is misplayed because of being lost in the
sun or lights, blown by the wind, or if the fielder slips and falls
— even if contact is made with the ball.
14.22.2 When there is a mental mistake. Throwing to the
wrong base is considered a mental mistake.
Also
14.3.2.2 When a ground ball is fielded and no throw or a
late throw is made, a hit is credited to the batter unless
a throw was not made or was made late because
of checking or holding a runner on base.

 

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Mental mistakes are not errors.
otherwise
good throw hits a runner, umpire or bat.
SECTION 22—NO ERROR IS CHARGED
No error is charged to a fielder in the following situations:
14.22.1 When a ball is misplayed because of being lost in the
sun or lights, blown by the wind, or if the fielder slips and falls
— even if contact is made with the ball.
14.22.2 When there is a mental mistake. Throwing to the
wrong base is considered a mental mistake.
Also
14.3.2.2 When a ground ball is fielded and no throw or a
late throw is made, a hit is credited to the batter unless
a throw was not made or was made late because
of checking or holding a runner on base.

Is there a "dislike" button on here somewhere? ;&

 

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From NCAA: (thanks imawesom...)

14.2.9 Error: A misplay charged to a defensive player when it is judged by the official scorer to have prolonged the time at bat (causes one or more pitches to be thrown) of an offensive player or contributed to an offensive player being declared safe.

Does a "misplay" have to be physical? I feel they can be mental errors too.

Be careful using the definitions in section 2 because they are oversimplified (i.e. incomplete) for a number of things (e.g. hits, errors, SB, FC, etc) that are covered completely in other sections.

So, just to be crystal clear, let's consider this one: Easy ground ball hit to 1B, 1B fields the ball cleanly and throws it to the pitcher without making a play on the batter/runner and batter/runner safely reaches 1B is no error against the fielder and a single for the batter? Ugh, I don't like that a bit. I don't want the batter getting the hit (especially if she's on my team because I don't want to have stats present a better picture than reality) and I want the fielder getting the error (especially if she's on my team for the reason already stated).

I know that this scenario should never happen and if it happens often, the wrong person is at 1B but... my point is that mental errors should be counted as errors if we are to use stats as as representing some level of reality. Addressing the ERA situation you stated above, that runner in my scenario is on by a hit and if she scores, it goes against the pitcher's ERA. That's not cool.

It's an error.

- NCAA 14.21.3 - An error shall be charged against any fielder when she catches a thrown ball or fields a ground ball in time to put out any runner on a force play and fails to tag the base or the runner, including a batter-runner on a play at first base.

- ATEC - An error is charged
1. For each miscue/physical mistake, including fielding, wild throws, and missed catches of good throws, which prolongs the life of a batter, the life of a runner or which permits a runner to advance, including a dropped foul fly unless it was dropped intentionally to prevent a runner from advancing.
a - Receiving a throw or fielding a ground ball and not stepping on the base or not touching the player is an error on the fielder.

 

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Interesting on the 1B play ... learned something new, though again, I'm not sure I've ever actually seen it happen in a game ...

 

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I agree with Tr, SoCal and Lenski. I understand the ATEC scoring thing but c'mon i give my girls erros on stuff like they describe. Tr your gaining Allies!

 

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... Tr your gaining Allies!

On OFC? Say it ain't so. Does that even happen? :lmao:

 

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So, just to be crystal clear, let's consider this one: Easy ground ball hit to 1B, 1B fields the ball cleanly and throws it to the pitcher without making a play on the batter/runner and batter/runner safely reaches 1B is no error against the fielder and a single for the batter? Ugh, I don't like that a bit. I don't want the batter getting the hit (especially if she's on my team because I don't want to have stats present a better picture than reality) and I want the fielder getting the error (especially if she's on my team for the reason already stated).

I know that this scenario should never happen and if it happens often, the wrong person is at 1B but... my point is that mental errors should be counted as errors if we are to use stats as as representing some level of reality. Addressing the ERA situation you stated above, that runner in my scenario is on by a hit and if she scores, it goes against the pitcher's ERA. That's not cool.

According to ncaa it would be scored as an error

14.21.3 An error shall be charged against any fielder when she catches a thrown ball or fields a ground ball in time to putout any runner on a force play and fails to tag the base or the runner, including a batter-runner on a play at first base

 

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On OFC? Say it ain't so. Does that even happen? :lmao:

Only briefly until we disagree on something...:yahoo:

 

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According to ncaa it would be scored as an error

14.21.3 An error shall be charged against any fielder when she catches a thrown ball or fields a ground ball in time to putout any runner on a force play and fails to tag the base or the runner, including a batter-runner on a play at first base

But, if it were the shortstop who fielded the ball, she would not have time to tag first base or the batter/runner. If she fails to throw or throws late to first it is a hit, not an error.

 

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But, if it were the shortstop who fielded the ball, she would not have time to tag first base or the batter/runner. If she fails to throw or throws late to first it is a hit, not an error.

The NCAA rule is not specific to 1B - it applies anywhere. It only mentions 1B to clarify it applies to batter-runners as well as runners.

14.21.3 An error shall be charged against any fielder when she catches a thrown ball or fields a ground ball in time to putout any runner on a force play and fails to tag the base or the runner, including a batter-runner on a play at first base.

You're right about a late throw being a hit. A non-throw could be a FC if the fielder checked a runner instead of throwing to 1B.

 

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The NCAA rule is not specific to 1B - it applies anywhere.

Yes it does.