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I don't understand why there is so many players from hilliard u14 age group playing for other softball clubs, there is about 9 or 10 TOP players not playing for Hilliard, WHY ! ! !
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
maybe nothing is wrong - but just a case of the grass is always greener!
maybe nothing is wrong - but just a case of the grass is always greener!
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
Pouncer,
I wouldn't assume anything is "wrong". In the past Hilliard has run a pretty good program, one of several community based teams that has done a decent job of competing with the good travel programs. They still had kids playing outside of the program. I can think of several reasons a player might want to do that without having anything against the program itself.
Already on a team.
Likes to play with a different group of kids in the summer.
Cost/travel expectations fit player and family goals.
Different level of competitiveness.
Personally, I have a daughter that the community we are from would love to have her play, but for several of the reasons above, and others, she chooses not to.
Pouncer,
I wouldn't assume anything is "wrong". In the past Hilliard has run a pretty good program, one of several community based teams that has done a decent job of competing with the good travel programs. They still had kids playing outside of the program. I can think of several reasons a player might want to do that without having anything against the program itself.
Already on a team.
Likes to play with a different group of kids in the summer.
Cost/travel expectations fit player and family goals.
Different level of competitiveness.
Personally, I have a daughter that the community we are from would love to have her play, but for several of the reasons above, and others, she chooses not to.
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
http:/
/www.wideopenwest.com/~thebearmay/Images/eyes.gif
I'll be watching so let's keep the tone positive.
Like Tejam said, there may be nothing wrong with Hilliard's program if it is reaching its targetted audience. What a lot of people fail to realize is that most communities don't have the talent pool to compete year in and year out with a true tournament team which seeks national level competition, but they can offer good competition on a local scale that is above Rec. I see three main divisions (each with multiple levels inside it): Recreational, Community Based Travel, and Tournament.
Recreational is just that. It is played for the pure fun of learning the game and the opportunity to do something with friends. There is a competitive piece to this level, but it is a far second to learning and fun.
Community based travel teams tend to play a more competitive schedule, but due to the talent pool available tend to compete more at the city wide league level - GCGC for example. They will take in a few tournaments, but do not seek the national qualifiers as a general rule. The cost and time commitment at this level is higher than recreational, but less than a Tournament Level team. They also tend to draw their talent from local area, generally focused on a central community and maybe a couple of neighboring communites. Girls on these teams tend to see each other quite often at school or community events. Many families find that this level of competition vs expense and time commitment is most comfortable for them. You will find many good players that do not move beyond this level, or that go back to this level after a year or two of tournament.
The tournament team level has not historically appealled to the majority of the population due to the level of commitment, focus, and expense related to it. This level tends to be more focused on competition and the desire to compete against "the best", and thus requires more of a year round type of commitment. These teams tend to draw talent from a much wider area than the community teams, and the girls may or may not socialize with other girls from the team off the field. They also will travel throughout the state and sometimes beyond to find national level competition. Expenses at this level are generally higher as the tournaments cost more to enter, and the hotel and travel related expenses can't be avoided as easily (unless you have a large family spread throughout the country ;D).
Each of these levels, and their sub-levels, have a target population and by their nature will not appeal to every girl/family. So the real question is not what is wrong, but is, is Hilliard's program reaching its intended audience? If so, then it should be considered a success. If not, what is standing in its way? If it is trying to be the organization that all girls in Hilliard should play for, I would say that the focus is too broad.
/www.wideopenwest.com/~thebearmay/Images/eyes.gif
Like Tejam said, there may be nothing wrong with Hilliard's program if it is reaching its targetted audience. What a lot of people fail to realize is that most communities don't have the talent pool to compete year in and year out with a true tournament team which seeks national level competition, but they can offer good competition on a local scale that is above Rec. I see three main divisions (each with multiple levels inside it): Recreational, Community Based Travel, and Tournament.
Recreational is just that. It is played for the pure fun of learning the game and the opportunity to do something with friends. There is a competitive piece to this level, but it is a far second to learning and fun.
Community based travel teams tend to play a more competitive schedule, but due to the talent pool available tend to compete more at the city wide league level - GCGC for example. They will take in a few tournaments, but do not seek the national qualifiers as a general rule. The cost and time commitment at this level is higher than recreational, but less than a Tournament Level team. They also tend to draw their talent from local area, generally focused on a central community and maybe a couple of neighboring communites. Girls on these teams tend to see each other quite often at school or community events. Many families find that this level of competition vs expense and time commitment is most comfortable for them. You will find many good players that do not move beyond this level, or that go back to this level after a year or two of tournament.
The tournament team level has not historically appealled to the majority of the population due to the level of commitment, focus, and expense related to it. This level tends to be more focused on competition and the desire to compete against "the best", and thus requires more of a year round type of commitment. These teams tend to draw talent from a much wider area than the community teams, and the girls may or may not socialize with other girls from the team off the field. They also will travel throughout the state and sometimes beyond to find national level competition. Expenses at this level are generally higher as the tournaments cost more to enter, and the hotel and travel related expenses can't be avoided as easily (unless you have a large family spread throughout the country ;D).
Each of these levels, and their sub-levels, have a target population and by their nature will not appeal to every girl/family. So the real question is not what is wrong, but is, is Hilliard's program reaching its intended audience? If so, then it should be considered a success. If not, what is standing in its way? If it is trying to be the organization that all girls in Hilliard should play for, I would say that the focus is too broad.
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliard's 14U SB program?
...I see DogsDad and I are thinking along the same lines. ?
...I see DogsDad and I are thinking along the same lines. ?
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
Thinking off of the top of my head, I think Worthington has at least 10 of its top 14-U players playing for various travel teams, rather than the in-house team. This gives those 10 girls a look at higher level of ball and forces the girls on the in-house team to step up their games if they're going to be competitive.
Thinking off of the top of my head, I think Worthington has at least 10 of its top 14-U players playing for various travel teams, rather than the in-house team. This gives those 10 girls a look at higher level of ball and forces the girls on the in-house team to step up their games if they're going to be competitive.
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
bear, i agree 100% with your breakdown in levels of competition and i also ask does hilliard have 10u and 12u teams in 270 or gcgc leagues ?
bear, i agree 100% with your breakdown in levels of competition and i also ask does hilliard have 10u and 12u teams in 270 or gcgc leagues ?
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
Bear,
I'm sort of worried about you at this point. You seem to have mutated from 2 eyeballs to 4! or maybe I'm just needing glasses at this point? ;D
Bear,
I'm sort of worried about you at this point. You seem to have mutated from 2 eyeballs to 4! or maybe I'm just needing glasses at this point? ;D
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
Sometimes I think I need 6-8 to keep up with everything that is going on. ;DClassics said:
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
How many communities are there that can actually fill a travel ball roster strictly from inside the community and compete?
How many communities are there that can actually fill a travel ball roster strictly from inside the community and compete?
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
Berk, that last part of the question "compete" is always the sticking point. Hilliard is an example of a team that does a pretty good job of fielding quality teams, play the game well, good coaching etc. and on any given day, .... You have a large community with 2 high school coaches that I have always heard to be involved with the program top to bottom. Are they going to win consistently against your top teams? Probably not, but based on the success of both Hilliard High school teams that is probably not their goal. A somewhat smaller community based team that comes to mind is Tallmadge. Again, the ability to give a lot of competitive games, and drawing from a much smaller pool of players. There are others that do a great job, probably will not find them late on Sunday in the larger tournaments, but if you take them lightly, you just might find yourself in the losers bracket, or headed home early.
Berk, that last part of the question "compete" is always the sticking point. Hilliard is an example of a team that does a pretty good job of fielding quality teams, play the game well, good coaching etc. and on any given day, .... You have a large community with 2 high school coaches that I have always heard to be involved with the program top to bottom. Are they going to win consistently against your top teams? Probably not, but based on the success of both Hilliard High school teams that is probably not their goal. A somewhat smaller community based team that comes to mind is Tallmadge. Again, the ability to give a lot of competitive games, and drawing from a much smaller pool of players. There are others that do a great job, probably will not find them late on Sunday in the larger tournaments, but if you take them lightly, you just might find yourself in the losers bracket, or headed home early.
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
There are two sides of teams in Hilliard. One Black "Darby" and one "Blue" Davidson side. All I can say is five girls with talent on the black side, went over to the Classics which diluted the talent pool drastically. Ours decided to play for the Stingrays and is on the Toler team, only after discussing with the HS coach first for their respected opinion. I believe the Blue side will be pretty good for 2006 but I am uncertain on the 14 black. 4 years ago it was combined, but due to circumstances, it was decided to split the school teams at the 14 age. If they kept them whole, they could compete with any team out there regularly, now it's more about playing and learning vs. winning over the summer and maybe getting a second place or two over a summer. I do not know if any have won 1st in the higher ages since the split.
Yes, they will have a GCGC team in the 12's and we have a team chosen already and are already starting workouts for the 2006 season.
There are two sides of teams in Hilliard. One Black "Darby" and one "Blue" Davidson side. All I can say is five girls with talent on the black side, went over to the Classics which diluted the talent pool drastically. Ours decided to play for the Stingrays and is on the Toler team, only after discussing with the HS coach first for their respected opinion. I believe the Blue side will be pretty good for 2006 but I am uncertain on the 14 black. 4 years ago it was combined, but due to circumstances, it was decided to split the school teams at the 14 age. If they kept them whole, they could compete with any team out there regularly, now it's more about playing and learning vs. winning over the summer and maybe getting a second place or two over a summer. I do not know if any have won 1st in the higher ages since the split.
Yes, they will have a GCGC team in the 12's and we have a team chosen already and are already starting workouts for the 2006 season.
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
I don't think there is anything wrong with Hilliard's program...or are you just referring to 14u? ?I know the people in charge there, they are doing a fine job and are trying to do their best.
At Olentangy we are having the same growing pains as perhaps the Hilliard program did back 10 (?) years ago. ?We have over 700 kids in our youth programs, yet we only have 3 "select" teams (who play just weekdays in the I270 10u league or GCGC league). ? We are always trying to sell the select programs to them, but some just don't want to do it.
I also have a travelling organization now, the Turbos, in their 3rd year. ? They started as just a 14u team with 100% Olentangy kids. ?I started this program to give Olentangy kids, some who are very talented yet were #'s 8-9 on other rosters, a chance at playing some real competitive ball. ?This year we will have (2) 14u's and (1) 16u. ?Almost had a 12u. ?But in order to be competitive, we had to open up the tryouts to players outside Olentangy, and we have greatly improved all of our teams. ? ?
It is so hard to make up a travel team, albeit a competitive one, with only your "community" players. ?I think Gahanna has these teams (Lions?), Hilliard has the Cats, Pickerington has their own travel team too I believe (much like the Cats or Turbos), Worthington has the Spirit, Westerville has one, Reynoldsburg has the Attitude, I could go on and on. ?And some players have migrated to other organizations, and there is nothing you can do about that. ?
Personally I think all of these above mentioned organizations were started with a goal of presenting to their their "community" players a chance to a) play competitive ball and b) play together. ?Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. ?
I don't think there is anything wrong with Hilliard's program...or are you just referring to 14u? ?I know the people in charge there, they are doing a fine job and are trying to do their best.
At Olentangy we are having the same growing pains as perhaps the Hilliard program did back 10 (?) years ago. ?We have over 700 kids in our youth programs, yet we only have 3 "select" teams (who play just weekdays in the I270 10u league or GCGC league). ? We are always trying to sell the select programs to them, but some just don't want to do it.
I also have a travelling organization now, the Turbos, in their 3rd year. ? They started as just a 14u team with 100% Olentangy kids. ?I started this program to give Olentangy kids, some who are very talented yet were #'s 8-9 on other rosters, a chance at playing some real competitive ball. ?This year we will have (2) 14u's and (1) 16u. ?Almost had a 12u. ?But in order to be competitive, we had to open up the tryouts to players outside Olentangy, and we have greatly improved all of our teams. ? ?
It is so hard to make up a travel team, albeit a competitive one, with only your "community" players. ?I think Gahanna has these teams (Lions?), Hilliard has the Cats, Pickerington has their own travel team too I believe (much like the Cats or Turbos), Worthington has the Spirit, Westerville has one, Reynoldsburg has the Attitude, I could go on and on. ?And some players have migrated to other organizations, and there is nothing you can do about that. ?
Personally I think all of these above mentioned organizations were started with a goal of presenting to their their "community" players a chance to a) play competitive ball and b) play together. ?Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. ?
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
The reason I was asking because we just moved to Hilliard and my DD wanted to play in Hilliard, but when I was asking around and spoke with different parents regarding the program I did not get one positive remark about Hilliard's u14 softball program, ( last years u12 team ) and the board members (EGO'S are to BIG ! ! !) Both Hilliard High Schools softball teams always have a winning season and I just don't understand.
The reason I was asking because we just moved to Hilliard and my DD wanted to play in Hilliard, but when I was asking around and spoke with different parents regarding the program I did not get one positive remark about Hilliard's u14 softball program, ( last years u12 team ) and the board members (EGO'S are to BIG ! ! !) Both Hilliard High Schools softball teams always have a winning season and I just don't understand.
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
Pouncer, This one I need to respond to as having kids play in the travel program the last few years it has been a great experience. The coaches we had on the Black side have been nothing but exceptional and have taught the game well and also have made the girls into fine young ladies. The coaches have no daughters of their own, have given their weekends and free time to do this and we have greatly appreciated all of their time. That said, I will still have two in the system and one outside, only due to the fact of the talent level at the 14's and wanted to make sure the 14 played at a level that better suited her individually. As far as the board goes, alot of trash is thrown out about them and they too are volunteers, with only the best interest of the ladies in mind. It is always being said the "select few" make decisions ?for the league. Yes, in the scheme of things the board about 14 people I guess could be seen as the "Select few" but they do make decisions that affect 900 players. The board ?and it's meetings are open to anyone to show up and observe or more important help, but people aren't beating down the door, so anyone who wants to complain without walking in any volunteer's shoes should do so first before making any statements, as I know they are always looking for more people to help. This takes up over 75 hours of each of their time to pull this off, so if you add it up it's alot of time given to make things operate. Perfect? heck no, but without the board, there is no softball for the girls to play and that's why it gets done.
Pouncer, This one I need to respond to as having kids play in the travel program the last few years it has been a great experience. The coaches we had on the Black side have been nothing but exceptional and have taught the game well and also have made the girls into fine young ladies. The coaches have no daughters of their own, have given their weekends and free time to do this and we have greatly appreciated all of their time. That said, I will still have two in the system and one outside, only due to the fact of the talent level at the 14's and wanted to make sure the 14 played at a level that better suited her individually. As far as the board goes, alot of trash is thrown out about them and they too are volunteers, with only the best interest of the ladies in mind. It is always being said the "select few" make decisions ?for the league. Yes, in the scheme of things the board about 14 people I guess could be seen as the "Select few" but they do make decisions that affect 900 players. The board ?and it's meetings are open to anyone to show up and observe or more important help, but people aren't beating down the door, so anyone who wants to complain without walking in any volunteer's shoes should do so first before making any statements, as I know they are always looking for more people to help. This takes up over 75 hours of each of their time to pull this off, so if you add it up it's alot of time given to make things operate. Perfect? heck no, but without the board, there is no softball for the girls to play and that's why it gets done.
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
Hilliarddad
Well said, it always amazes me the expectations people put on volunteers running the rec programs in communities. (Not from Hilliard, but my wife has run softball in a community). With 900 kids, you probably have 75 teams, to schedule, outfit, supply equipment, find coaches etc. the list is endless. Regardless of how even handed the opportunities are there are always the charges of favoritism.
Hilliarddad
Well said, it always amazes me the expectations people put on volunteers running the rec programs in communities. (Not from Hilliard, but my wife has run softball in a community). With 900 kids, you probably have 75 teams, to schedule, outfit, supply equipment, find coaches etc. the list is endless. Regardless of how even handed the opportunities are there are always the charges of favoritism.
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
It not only amazes me the expectations put on the VOLUNTEERS running the rec leagues.....what about the expectations put on the VOLUNTEER coaches? ?Been there done that! ?In our rec league most of the pressure came from the people running the league. ?We didn't work enough concession stand hours, we had our girls practice too much, we didn't practice enough, the list of gripes went on and on. ?AND I AM A VOLUNTEER! ?No gratitude shown to the coaches and absolutely NO back up when a parent/coach conflict came into play. ? :-[
But we are there for the girls sooooooo we buck it up!
It not only amazes me the expectations put on the VOLUNTEERS running the rec leagues.....what about the expectations put on the VOLUNTEER coaches? ?Been there done that! ?In our rec league most of the pressure came from the people running the league. ?We didn't work enough concession stand hours, we had our girls practice too much, we didn't practice enough, the list of gripes went on and on. ?AND I AM A VOLUNTEER! ?No gratitude shown to the coaches and absolutely NO back up when a parent/coach conflict came into play. ? :-[
But we are there for the girls sooooooo we buck it up!
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Re: What is wrong with Hilliards u14's softball pr
DogsDad,
I am the 12u coach in Tallmadge and that is why I made the statement. I almost had to go outside of Tallmadge this year so I know the difficulty local communities have.
DogsDad,
I am the 12u coach in Tallmadge and that is why I made the statement. I almost had to go outside of Tallmadge this year so I know the difficulty local communities have.
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