Ethics for teams

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OhioRays, it might be time to swith this name over to FlaRays too, I think that might present some confusion too ?

Since I know you don't know how to do that, give me a call and I will walk you through that.

 

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Amusing reading. The thing I take away from this thread is that everyone sees an activity and percieves it differently. I have NO direct involvement with any of these situations so if I point something out, it is simply that to make a point. Stingrays Coach terms the dismantling of the 14U team as disappointing, others have posted how deceived they feel about the entire situation. There have been many not very subtle references to the head of an organization that recruits players at tournaments, yet how many teams does this organization have? Those parents must not be too upset. A team passed out flyers in the parking lot, I am not supporting this action, but by the same token have been approached by the head of an organization before reaching the parking lot at tryouts for a different team.
Like it or not each organization is represented by ALL the coaches, players and even parents every time they go to a tournament, or even when they wear your team insignia in public. I doubt that we are all proud of every action taken.

 

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OhioRays - my bad, I assumed you were part of the Stingrays (Central Ohio). Your posts are deceptive. Your bold comments are as if you are part of this organization.

Stingrays Coach - thanks for the clarification on OhioRays.

 

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tomuch,
Not defending Nightmare (I know zero about this org), and personally would not take this approach. Over the last few years have been to tryouts for different organizations, and frequently have been to them where they are only looking for 1-2 players, and maybe at specific positions. In trying to make good use of my time, have contacted coaches to get an idea of what they are really looking for. Am I the only parent that has heard "Everyone on the team has to try out, and we are taking the best players we can find"? Tryout time arrives and the returning players do very little "trying out". Yes I understand the coach has had an entire year with them, and knows what they can do. That isn't taking the best players at tryouts, that is filling holes. My point is there can be players that are good enough to make the team, but they need a shortstop not a catcher. The Nightmare, or any other organization might see several good quality players that an established organization already has filled. (still not saying what they did was right) I have seen very few organizations that have come out in their tryout postings and give accurate information on what they are really looking for. Joe A's organization did and I am sure there are others, but that has been the exception and not the rule.

 

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Nightmare, while I find fault in placing flyers on windows at another's organizations tryout, it makes me laugh (LOL) when some sing better than choir boys at Sunday mass.

 

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Jam,

You've obviously never really heard me sing.

 

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hmm...i find this all very interesting. I think that there is nothing wrong with us putting up fliers at your tryout...you honestly aren't scared of losing your players to us are you? And who ever started this whole thing...you must have NOOOO idea what you saw when you went to get your stopwatch. I was there...and I put the fliers up. I was the only one...the 2 coaches weren't even paying attention. anyways...whether i am a worm or not is up to you...but i wasn't looking around before i put up the fliers...i had NOTHING to worry about. I find there to be NOTHING wrong with what I did. Anyways...what do I know...I'm just a LOCAL 16 year old girl.

 

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Oh...I understand perfectly. I just don't see what the big deal is. Did we interrupt your tryout? Mess anything up? Steal ANY of your players you were going to keep? Didn't think so. Whats a way to get better? Get better players...and how do you get better players? You recruit...it's that simple. Maybe you are the one who doesn't get it...You are just making a big deal out of NOTHING.

 

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Nightmare -
If you have openings that you'd like to fill, rather than come to my tryouts, call me and give me contact information.

I'll be happy to pass the information along to players that don't fit what I'm looking for.

 

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This thread has turned into a nightmare lol ;D

 

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Not that this has much baring on the situation, but I thought it was interesting that most of the people most reved up by this are not even members of the Stingrays organization. OhioRays (has he changed to FlaRays yet?) and I are involved only peripherally now, and wvanalmslick has a daughter on one of the teams, but I don't recognize any of the other scrennames as those of "StingrayLand" members (if there are others I don't know, send me a message and say hi).

What I think that tells you is that even people not affected (I would guess 95% of those that have responded negatively) by the actions of the Nightmare see something inherently wrong with it. While there are natural and healthy rivalries (which at times can get heated) among teams that draw from the same area, as so many do in Central Ohio, I know that most of us involved with those organizations have a deep respect, fondness, and friendship with each other, whether it is predominately shared on the ball field or in cyberspace.

While I think that there could have been better ways for the Nightmare to handle the situation, that day our coaches heard about far worse offenses commited in hopes of keeping players from attending our tryouts. Most of them I am sure were accidental, created by misunderstandings and assumptions, but what the Nightmare coach and/or player did is behind us. I hope that they take from this the understanding that the fastpitch community is very small, and even if you think your actions do not harm anyone else, or cross any lines, it is always safer to go as above the board as possible, because if someone is offended they will not hesitate to let others know.

I hope that the Nightmare are able to fill their rosters with as many quality players as possible, and I hope they can build their organization, while building positive relationships with the other teams in the Central Ohio area, the Stingrays included.

 

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I asked my 16ish-year-old daughters what they would think if they went to a tryout and came back to the car to find a flier for another organization's tryouts on our windshield. Their replies were, "I think it is cheap, and I would not attend their tryouts." "I would throw it away."

It sounds like there were good intentions in this situation and not meant to offend anyone. However, if my teenage daughters, who would be the ones attending tryouts, feel this way, I imagine that you probably did more damage than good for your organization.

I applaud your effort in trying to find players for your organization. In the process, you have probably learned some big life lessons. Learning from everything we do, both good and not good, is what makes us a better person.

 

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I'm not from the central Ohio region but have been following this thread. To the Stingrays Coach- your statement has added class and resolution to this thread and (hoepfully) as you said - put it behind - the teams involved. It's good to know coaches like you are out there.

 

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Nightmare and daughter,

Being new in the travel softball in Central Ohio, you are entitled to some growing pains, but to grow you will have to realize that there are some unwritten codes of conduct that each, well...most organizations adher to. As Stingray Coach so eloquently stated, most of the organizations in this area are heated rivals on the field but have respect for each other on and off the field. ?I know most every coach and heads of organizations in Central Ohio and I respect them and I'd like to think that I have earned their respect. ?To earn respect, learn the "codes" I have mentioned. ?We do not need to step on each others toes, there is just no reason to.

I know just about every coach in Central Ohio will help a girl find a team if they do not have a spot for her. ?I do this frequently. ?As a matter of fact, I believe I sent a player toward you last sping that was looking for a team and I did not have a spot for her. ?I have given out contact information for just about every organization in central Ohio (and beyond) ?to girls looking for a team to play for. ?I have sent some very talented girls to other teams in the past. ?If I don't have a spot, it is the right thing to do. ?The operative word here is "right". ?Strive to do the right thing and you will attract players, I promise you that.

To put it in perspective, as Stingray Coach did, your transgressions were not nearly as bad as some I have seen in the past. ?Some have been recently mention on this board and just about every coach in central Ohio (and again, beyond) have seen some unsavory practice during the season. This includes approaching players in mid-season, passing out cards, literature, etc. ?A number of years ago, a coach tried to ?recruit my pitcher while she was warming up to go into a game. ?Another coach brought his ? ? sc rapbook (I had to space it, autocensor bleeped it) of "trophies" to show my parents while they were trying to watch their daughter play. ? ?I helped restrain a friend of mine from another organization, to keep him from throttling this same "recruiter" because he told the parents on his team that "when they were tired of playing for a loser, call me".

One of the best ways to succeed in this area is to be above board in everything that you do. ?Do not call committed players, do not put down other organizations to make yours look better, do not approach girls during the season, ?do not make derogatory comments about other organization and...... do not intrude on other teams tryouts to pass out literature.

I want to welcome you to the fastpitch community and if you every want any advice, I would be glad to help you as will most of the coaches in the area. ?Just abide by the "unwritten code". ?It is a matter of courtesy and respect. ?

 

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Way to go Jim
You can't say it any better

 

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that is so true

 

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To Johnnies,

Had to respond to your post.

Two years ago my daughter pitched for a "bad' team. While playing at a local tournament, she was approached after the game by an assistant coach from another team. She was asked (without me or her mother nearby) if she would be interested in playing on a team with a winning tradition. I assume the coach meant next season. She came and got me. I told the coach that if she wished to play for their team she would tryout for them next season. I held no ill will toward the coach. But I laugh when I read your post and realize this coach was/is with a local organization who you claim to be abiding by an unwritten code. Maybe this group needs a written copy of the "code". Good luck to all this season.

 

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I'm glad kniteowl posted that. That is one issue I have no problem with; that being asking a girl to try out for a team for the following season. I have done this a couple of times myself, normally late in the summer. I admit I do think it's a little awkward, but I find no ethical problem with it, as long as it's intended for the following season, and not to try to back door your way into getting a girl for the current season.

As someone said above, at the end of a season, all bets are off and everyone is a free agent.

 

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Joe,

I think recruiting during the season is wrong. It feels awkward to approach a girl playing on another squad because it is wrong. You need to take a hard look at your behavior. I bet you would never do that to a player on a team that you would consider your equal. Would you do that to the Stingrays or Classics? Sorry, but you seem kinda two-faced.

???

 

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Very well said JC! What is in the water up in Northern Franklin /Southern Deleware Counties? The wisdom seems to be flowing. lol. ;D Gladdad, it seems strange that you would, for lack of a better word, slam Joe for his being honest! Especially since this is your rookie post. Are we hideing something here? BTW most, and I do mean most of the higher profile teams will initiate contact either with an assistant or a parent during the season for the following year. And as long as it's for the following season-there is nothing (at least in my humble opinion) wrong with this!