Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Mandatory Mask..Coaches or Parents Decision?

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Great point Sammy!

HBTCB: Really? thousands and thousands of kids have played with no mask and did just fine but you say "The decision cannot be left up to the parents". You stopping at the mask? You don't think there are more important things in life that cannot be left up to parents? Of all the things in life involving the health and welfare of children in the world is a mask in softball the only thing that cannot be left up to parents? Or would you extend that? Curious as to how much you think society should take over the raising of children.

Mad Hornet: When you say: "If you can prevent a major injury or fatality by doing something simple, shouldn't you do it?" How about the throat guard? Heart guard? I've seen a line drive into a knee do serious injury, how about knee pads? Line drive into a shin, how about shin guards? At least for corners and pitchers? A hard foul into a dugout can do serious injury, how about full gear in the dugout? Seen foul balls hit kids in the head walking around the park, how about helmets for all kids in the park? These are all "simple" that could prevent major injury. Where do you draw a line?

I'm not aware of a simple fix for the throat problem. I'm also not aware of any players taking a shot to the throat. I'm aware of plenty taking a shot to the face however.

As far as I know too, the heart guard is more of an issue for younger children. Knees and shins heal usually without permanent brain damage or death.

We tell our kids in the dugout they better pay attention.

A Rip It mask is relatively inexpensive and easy to don. Like I said everyone else can do what they want.

We know the hazard is there especially for 3B and pitchers. I suppose that is where I draw the line.

 

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Adding to my previous post:

The whole mask issue stems from parents wanting a "quick fix" (read: LAZY) for their kid's hitting inadequacy. Just go out and buy a souped up bat that can launch a one-handed bunt for a home run. I've seen check-swing hits go over the fence. How hard do you think a trained hitter with a full, proficient swing from a souped-up bat launches the ball?

So, now we've dumbed down the game so little Suzy can hit without really knowing how. The problem is that now every defensive player has to wear flack jackets and masks - including infield Suzy - to protect from the REAL hitters using the same rocket launchers and grenades!

Why isn't this issue addressed? Is it just easier for the band-aid approach? Does the parental ego of seeing your DD become an instant power hitter outweigh common sense and safety?

How long will parents allow what I would loosely call "profits over safety" for their kids? Isn't it just a smidgen hypocritical to buy your DD a high tech bat, then demand that all the other kids wear masks, heart guards, throat protectors, shin guards, etc.?

In the spirit of free enterprise, I am against prohibiting manufacturers from producing any equipment they choose. But, nobody is forcing anyone to BUY! The quickest way to eliminate an unwanted/unsafe product is to vote with your wallet.

Why not use technology for the common good? Manufacturers could easily engineer bats and balls that would strike a balance between performance and safety - IF they were given the incentive! But continuing to buy the latest and greatest rocket launchers only feeds the frenzy - and reinforces my point. So, before demanding someone else fix a problem you are contributing to, go look in the mirror.

Anyone remember the "lawn dart fix"? Did kids start wearing Kevlar helmets and body armour?

 

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Great point Sammy!

HBTCB: Really? thousands and thousands of kids have played with no mask and did just fine but you say "The decision cannot be left up to the parents". You stopping at the mask? You don't think there are more important things in life that cannot be left up to parents? Of all the things in life involving the health and welfare of children in the world is a mask in softball the only thing that cannot be left up to parents? Or would you extend that? Curious as to how much you think society should take over the raising of children.

Once again, I should state that I was really referring to High School ball when I said the coaches should mandate the players to wear masks. When a team is 0-15 and gets run-ruled by 20 or better runs a game, every kid on that team should wear a mask....full body armor if I was coaching them! Take a look around at a High School game, lucky if there are 5 parents at some of these games. The parents of many of these High School players have no interests at all. They sign the permission slip to play and that is as far as it goes. I guess for the sake of an arguement, you can bring up shin guards, throat guards, heart guards and steel toed boots with metal-tarsils if you want.

 

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Very thorough, and I applaud you for looking at the "big picture".

C'mon people! Hitting a ball with a bat has been a part of the game since the game was invented. So, why is this "face collision with the ball" so dangerous today? Wasn't it just as dangerous "back in the day"? Are parents more sensitive to their kid's safety today? Did good ol' mom & dad not really care about this years ago? Of course they did!

The only thing I can figure out is the "ostrich principle". Let's all bury our heads in the sand and let someone else fix the REAL problem! And if you guessed the REAL problem is the bats and balls, you are correct!

Fix the ROOT problem, don't band-aid the symptom! If a 16 year old boy has a 500 HP sports car, would a bigger/better air bag make the situation safer? Or would lowering the HP make more sense? Just like racing sanctions (NASCAR) employ restrictor plates on engines, so should softball sanctions employ stricter limits on bats and balls.

But then, kids would actually have to learn how to hit correctly. Hmmm... maybe the level of play would increase then?

YEp - we've gone full circle - PAGE 1...lol

 

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Softball has a governing body (actually multiple governing bodies) that determine what is safe and what is unsafe for the players - one of those governing bodies is called ASA.

ASA identifies what is safe and what is not. ASA then notifies bat companies to what "they approve is an appropriate bat."

The bat industries then try to create a bat that meets the "approved requirements" identified by ASA. Every bat company tries to build the perfect bat that meets the requirements as designed by ASA. Each bat industry wants Little Suzi using their bat and are looking for "loop holes" that make Suzi buy their bat over someone else.

Now...

If you want to lay blame to the safety issue... I suggest you point your fingers at ASA. They are the ones that are allowing the girls to play with these "souped up bats". They are the ones that are telling the bat companies what they are allowed to make and what they are not allowed to make.

Don't point fingers at coaches, players, parents, bat companies or anyone else you want to point fingers at.

ASA are the ones saying what is safe and what is not safe... take it up with them if you have a complaint.

 

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And you don't have to look very far to see where the check comes from. Follow the trail of collusion... sad, really sad.

 

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The added safety that a mask provides is obvious. But making it mandatory is what I have a problem with. Where does it end? Elbow pads for hitters? Ankle shields? Tail bone pads for when outfielders try to stop in a muddy field? Kevlar uniforms?

We're playing a sport. Physical activity can lead to an injury. If you want to be 100% safe, stay home.

Pretty good possibility that getting hit in the elbow or ankle isn't gonna leave you in a coma or dead. My dd's a pitcher and plays 3rd. Summer travel she wears the mask without any arguement. HS she doesn't and she gets an arguement out of me every time. I do wish they would mandate it. At one time they use to play football in leather helmets with no face masks.

 

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A Question to throw out there..Would you let your son wear a mask to pitch or to play at a corner position?

 

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Adding to my previous post:

The whole mask issue stems from parents wanting a "quick fix" (read: LAZY) for their kid's hitting inadequacy. Just go out and buy a souped up bat that can launch a one-handed bunt for a home run. I've seen check-swing hits go over the fence. How hard do you think a trained hitter with a full, proficient swing from a souped-up bat launches the ball?

So, now we've dumbed down the game so little Suzy can hit without really knowing how. The problem is that now every defensive player has to wear flack jackets and masks - including infield Suzy - to protect from the REAL hitters using the same rocket launchers and grenades!

Why isn't this issue addressed? Is it just easier for the band-aid approach? Does the parental ego of seeing your DD become an instant power hitter outweigh common sense and safety?

How long will parents allow what I would loosely call "profits over safety" for their kids? Isn't it just a smidgen hypocritical to buy your DD a high tech bat, then demand that all the other kids wear masks, heart guards, throat protectors, shin guards, etc.?

In the spirit of free enterprise, I am against prohibiting manufacturers from producing any equipment they choose. But, nobody is forcing anyone to BUY! The quickest way to eliminate an unwanted/unsafe product is to vote with your wallet.

Why not use technology for the common good? Manufacturers could easily engineer bats and balls that would strike a balance between performance and safety - IF they were given the incentive! But continuing to buy the latest and greatest rocket launchers only feeds the frenzy - and reinforces my point. So, before demanding someone else fix a problem you are contributing to, go look in the mirror.

Anyone remember the "lawn dart fix"? Did kids start wearing Kevlar helmets and body armour?

I agree with you and disagree with you. I agree that the mandates need to gear towards the manufacturers. However I disagree that parents are looking for a lazy quick fix by putting little under skilled Suzy in a mask. There are so many layers to peel off to even get to the bat makers, it will take years. Where little Suzy should be wearing a mask even when playing wiffle ball, whereas Studdly Sally may only need to wear a mask one time in her entire carreer before we get to the bat makers. Sure wish we could predict what one time that Sally would need the mask so she doesn't end up in a pine box.

 

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I agree with you and disagree with you. I agree that the mandates need to gear towards the manufacturers. However I disagree that parents are looking for a lazy quick fix by putting little under skilled Suzy in a mask. There are so many layers to peel off to even get to the bat makers, it will take years. Where little Suzy should be wearing a mask even when playing wiffle ball, whereas Studdly Sally may only need to wear a mask one time in her entire carreer before we get to the bat makers. Sure wish we could predict what one time that Sally would need the mask so she doesn't end up in a pine box.

The "quick fix" I speak of isn't the mask, but rather buying the hi-tech bat (and lively balls). Notice I said EVERY infielder now needs a mask and body armour to protect themselves - nothing to do with fielding prowess, but everything to do with ball velocity. The laziness is buying a bat to "fix" hitting deficiency caused by improper swing mechanics, approach and vision. With great swing mechanics and recognition, most girls over 14 should be able to hit frequent homeruns over a 200' fence with a K-Mart special. Unfortunately, the good hitters can launch the ball into the next zip code with the current hi-tech bats, and those are the ones hitting the balls into your daughter's face.

 

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The governing bodies have not yet decided to make a mask mandatory. If your coach or league or travel organization doesn't make it mandatory then it is up to the parents of the player and ultimately the player herself. So there are at least 5 levels of decisions makers that could make this decision.

This is a $40 piece of equipment that will prevent concussions, loss of vision, loss of teeth along with less severe injuries.

The legal system will not ultimately protect the coaches and the organizations from legal action concerning a child. The parents and the injury lawyers will continue to thrive and these lawsuits will be filed. A vigorous defense while allowing a minor to decide whether or not to use a known safety device will carry little water in deciding who pays for this mistake. The child can be horribly disfigured and the injuries can last for life. Any release signed by the parents is not binding upon the child until after she turns 21.

So you fellows go ahead and bury your head in the sand, allow your children to be injured and promise not to sue some poor smuck volunteer coach and resist suing the tournament, all the while watching your dd lay in a hospital bed wondering if she will ever be able to see out of that eye, or walk, or chew her food and tell me you won't sue.

The fielders mask has no adverse impact on the game yet we tend to treat like it is a personal decision made by a child in isolation from our society. Get a grip.

 

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So, it sounds like it's just too hard to solve the problem . Sorry, but I guess I just don't get it. Use bats and balls that some third party has deemed "safe" for our kids... At least baseball is starting a movement to correct the problem. Maybe in the meantime ASA and the bat manufacturers will provide complimentary masks until they are forced into action ?? Unbelievable!

 

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Tough topic....my DD plays Varsity ball, a 3rd baseman, and doesn't wear a mask, only a mouth piece--very aggressive player. My other DD plays travel ball and wears a mask... I see the younger one using it as a security blanket and is much more aggressive when it's on--hmm...should she be that dependent upon it?

 

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To an earlier comment.......as a high school coach and a travel coach I absolutely can mandate a mask. Just like any other rules for the good of the player and the good of the team. My DD wears one in the circle and at first and it is just another piece of equipment for her.

 

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If you have to wear a mask you shouldn't be allowed to play!

 

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I really don't believe that any player wearing a mask is lazy.
I also agree totally that the bats are amped up to the point of lunicy. But do, I really believe they will change the legality of a bat? No way, too much money involved there.

I do not believe they should be manditory in travel, but I have seen some pretty poor skills at the high school level, and some pretty great skills too.

These girls have every right to play the game, be them skilled or not so skilled, but I really think OHSAA needs to institute the mask to prevent terrible injuries that can occur.

Sorry, just my opinion

 

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Watch a great young lady take one off the mask at Jerome last night. Fields her position really well but hands were fast enough to catch up with a mistake that was throw over the middle. They should be mandatory especially since we have speed up the bats with the 43 foot pitching distance. As it's "not cool", this young lady only has a concussion and not something much worse to deal with.

 

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Parent!!!!!

 

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If you have to wear a mask you shouldn't be allowed to play!

Can you be any more of a moron?

 

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The "quick fix" I speak of isn't the mask, but rather buying the hi-tech bat (and lively balls). Notice I said EVERY infielder now needs a mask and body armour to protect themselves - nothing to do with fielding prowess, but everything to do with ball velocity. The laziness is buying a bat to "fix" hitting deficiency caused by improper swing mechanics, approach and vision. With great swing mechanics and recognition, most girls over 14 should be able to hit frequent homeruns over a 200' fence with a K-Mart special. Unfortunately, the good hitters can launch the ball into the next zip code with the current hi-tech bats, and those are the ones hitting the balls into your daughter's face.

Sammy - keep it going. You are dead on.

ASA ruled that the phenix exit speeds when broken in exceeded what they think is safe...but they allow them to still be used in competition. Now the used ones are worth more than they cost new. Why does ASA do this - and it is happens the same way every time a bat is dropped? Because parents would be going back to the manufacturers asking for their money back. ASA's financial woes won't allow them to alienate any of their remaining sponsors. Same could probably be said about the NCAA as well.

My daughter played for a VERY talented team in which almost all the players went on to play college softball. I honestly only remember 3-4 homeruns their entire 7 years together. And they had well trained, physically fit, dedicated softball players. What has changed over the the past 7 years? I have had 12u players with 3-4 HR's. It isn't brain surgery.

Wear masks for safety - absolutely! Just don't get complacent and think safety is a one trick pony.