What's wrong with Ohio Softball.......

[default]

So why do many of our top girls leave Ohio Softball to pursue their dreams elsewhere. There is an obvious gap. Is anyone working to fill it. I think a previous thread last winter talked about Elite Training / Program being a void because of the lack of Elite Opportunities that come to Ohio girls.

As much as people want to say Lasers is that resource....
I would say the fact that 7 of Ohio's best softball players leaving to play for a team in another state is an indictment on how POOR our 16-18u programs are at providing high level training, playing highly competitive schedules, and lacking the relationships with major D1 colleges that in one year 7 of our best kids skip town cause Ohio can't deliver to their needs.

And this is not to rip Ohio Fast Pitch as 90% of it is great, but that 10% I'm pointing out is obviously needing some development.

 

[default]

Are you pointing out the fact that Ohio D1 schools don't generally pick up Ohio girls?

Resources basically comes down to available cash. Ohio is generally lacking in high paying jobs to support such resources. If you want to compare us to California, you simply can't. California's ecomony is far superior to Ohio's. Not to mention, Ohio girls are pushed indoors during the winter months. While there are programs that are in place for indoor play, it simply does not replicate a true game atmosphere as the west coast girls recieve. When you have two girls side by side, and one is able to play year round in "real" game situations while the other isn't, the first girl will eventually out play the second. So the question I ask, how do we replicate a real game atmosphere for the girls during the winter months?

 

[default]

my question is,,, how bad does it have to be in Ohio that 7 kids this year choose to pick up and drive 400+ miles to practice then join an Ohio 18u team.

We seem to have a major gap in which that many families thinks it's better to spend all that extra time and money out of state then in our own backyard.

 

[default]

Well that is a whole different beast in and of itself. I can't answer that. I can't even guess at that one. I think only those families can answer that one.
Would that team they joined truly be a higher caliber team?

 

[default]

You want to open up a can of worms, don't you? There are several reasons

We have winter, whereas the southern and western states don't. That kinda holds back out girls, and if they have beaten every team in Ohio, there's no more improvement, no challenges. So if you want to get better, you have to leave. However, unfortunately the college up north defeated that when they won the softball college world series, and they have it worse than us.

for those who love to hit, if they see every girl throwing x amount of speed on a flat line, there's no real challenges anymore. Most of the south and west preaches spin, break, etc, and not so much speed. That provides batters better challenges. So girls bolt for that.

Cash flow is another big reason. Alot of people who want those challenges can't leave, but those who can..will.

The big name tourneys like in Colorado, Illinois, how many teams from Ohio go to those tourneys? What if you dd doesn't play for that team? There's another reason for the bolting.

Another one, this came from another poster(s). CA teams carry close to 15 girls and they go to those high level events. However, can we as parents deal withthe fact in order for us to get to that level, agree to have our girls sit and play when called upon? I doubt it. If we can't handle it, we go and create another team. Now, this isn't every parent, but most.

Now, there are teams trying to get to that level so girls don't have to leave the state to play at the highest level. So, eventually we may get up there. But until then girls may still be bolting for the next state. I myself are already looking outside the state for softball camps. That's our family vacation next year besides next year's tournament season.

I know of a girl who is doing it, she wants to play SEC or PAC-10. So in order for her to get it, she has to leave the state. Can you tell me how many girls that play for Arizona live east of Arizona?

JHMO

 

[default]

playedfortheworst,

Are you asking a real question or looking to start trouble? These 7 girls, who I have no idea who they are, do not have to leave Ohio to play for a division 1 program. Many girls every year stay in ohio to play and train and are rewarded for their efforts by receiving a scholarship to play softball in college. Many organizations in Ohio are producing D1 players. Its true Ohio may not have a Corona Angels Organization but who besides California does.

 

[default]

would love to see the list of the 7 girls and where they are from and what travel org they played for in the past and what current org they are with now. maybe someone could PM it to me if you want to avoid naming the girls publically. I certainly wouldn't be critical at all for them choosing to chase a dream of playing SEC or Pac-10 ball.

lots of factors but a biggie would be familiarity of the travel ball coach with the particular college one wishes to attend.

another thought is if out of state teams are strickly a meet and play with nearly zero practice time what does it matter who you play for if you have to travel to Colorado, chicago, New Jersey , TN etc and etc.

as far as searching for and playing tough competition ........ i'll stay away from that one. MD

 

[default]

OK, so you are talking about leaving Ohio to play travel ball (at first I thought you were talking about college selections)? What teams were the 7 players on prior to departing? Which teams did they join? And why should we care so much about 7 girls, which is WELL below 10% of the girls playing travel ball in Ohio?

If these girls have the resources and talent to join better teams outside of Ohio, I wish them god's speed. There are very few places in the country where teams have a top-notch relationship with D1 schools and a training program that operates on a full-time basis outside of travel ball season. Most of those places are in California or Florida. The New Jersey Intensity is a similar program, though mostly for the competition it engages in and not for the training. I just hope that the girls traveling such a long way for the increased opportunities are not being lured on false promises. And if the promises are trustworthy, as I said, god's speed. I don't think we lowly volunteers in Ohio can abandon our day jobs to offer the semi-professional training that you are referring to.

BTW, I drafted this before seeing the prior two posts, which pretty much encompass my thoughts and questions.

 

[default]

Like I said, 90% maybe 95% of what Ohio FP offers is great. Just mentioning that there must be a whole in the last 5% when kids get to 16/18u that what appears to be some of the best players leave Ohio. I think where they went could be duplicated here. Just don't understand why it's not already in place. Thinking maybe the Ohio Hawks might get there in a few years of providing a true GOLD level program for their kids to compete and bee seen by more then Ohio and Indiana Colleges.

Regarding the 7, it doesn't matter who they are or who they played for. The issue is they had to leave Ohio Travel to meet their level of commitment, training, and competition requirements. That seems like something Stingrays, Lasers, Hawks,..... and the other Large Organizations might want to think about for their 16/18u programs (Growing / Stretching current mindsets to offer something more then what they are today for their kids trying to sign).

 

[default]

When most 16u and 18u girls in Ohio choose a team, it is based upon the teams schedule and that girls goals. If she wants to play in college she will choose a team that attends tournaments that draw college coaches. Now if she is looking to play for a top 25 D1 school, how many of those coaches will she play in front of in Ohio? If that is a girls goal, she will need to be on a team that plays in front of those coaches on a regular basis... that is, a Gold team.
We all know this is not a guaranteed way to be on a top 25 team nor is it the only way to do it, but it does increase your chances.
playedforworst is right in believing that we can this in Ohio. The biggest drawback to being on a Gold team is the amount of money that it costs. CA does not have better athletes than us but they do have (overall) better softball players. But this is only because of our limited playing time due to weather.

 

[default]

You want to open up a can of worms, don't you? There are several reasons

We have winter, whereas the southern and western states don't. That kinda holds back out girls, and if they have beaten every team in Ohio, there's no more improvement, no challenges. So if you want to get better, you have to leave. However, unfortunately the college up north defeated that when they won the softball college world series, and they have it worse than us.

for those who love to hit, if they see every girl throwing x amount of speed on a flat line, there's no real challenges anymore. Most of the south and west preaches spin, break, etc, and not so much speed. That provides batters better challenges. So girls bolt for that.

Cash flow is another big reason. Alot of people who want those challenges can't leave, but those who can..will.

The big name tourneys like in Colorado, Illinois, how many teams from Ohio go to those tourneys? What if you dd doesn't play for that team? There's another reason for the bolting.

Another one, this came from another poster(s). CA teams carry close to 15 girls and they go to those high level events. However, can we as parents deal withthe fact in order for us to get to that level, agree to have our girls sit and play when called upon? I doubt it. If we can't handle it, we go and create another team. Now, this isn't every parent, but most.

Now, there are teams trying to get to that level so girls don't have to leave the state to play at the highest level. So, eventually we may get up there. But until then girls may still be bolting for the next state. I myself are already looking outside the state for softball camps. That's our family vacation next year besides next year's tournament season.

I know of a girl who is doing it, she wants to play SEC or PAC-10. So in order for her to get it, she has to leave the state. Can you tell me how many girls that play for Arizona live east of Arizona?

JHMO

Great post. Agree with all your stating, but these kids didn't leave Ohio for Fl/Tx/..... They left to drive east 400 miles. Weather has nothing to do with it.... It's lack of training, competition, and Major Recruiting that is missing in Ohio.. Why would that be missing in Ohio but available in Neighboring states? That is the gist of my post.. Seems like OH should have those items buttoned down by now.

 

[default]

When it is pounded in your head since you were 10 - 12 that this is the team to play for then that is where you want to go.Some follow in there sisters foot steps and some are looking for the golden scholarship.I hope each and everyone of them accomplish there dreams.They are all great ball players.
Good luck.

 

[default]

When most 16u and 18u girls in Ohio choose a team, it is based upon the teams schedule and that girls goals. If she wants to play in college she will choose a team that attends tournaments that draw college coaches. Now if she is looking to play for a top 25 D1 school, how many of those coaches will she play in front of in Ohio? If that is a girls goal, she will need to be on a team that plays in front of those coaches on a regular basis... that is, a Gold team.
We all know this is not a guaranteed way to be on a top 25 team nor is it the only way to do it, but it does increase your chances.
playedforworst is right in believing that we can this in Ohio. The biggest drawback to being on a Gold team is the amount of money that it costs. CA does not have better athletes than us but they do have (overall) better softball players. But this is only because of our limited playing time due to weather.

Agree. And maybe this year there is just a BUBBLE of more girls in OH looking for that higher experience then past years. Great points sgf67. Kind of like a school district, you can't go build new schools because the class of 69(power outage) is a larger class then all the rest. lol

 

[default]

One reason Ohio does not have this type of organization or team is that there are 11 Div. I softball colleges in Ohio. This makes it relatively easy for top Ohio players to get a Div. I scholarship without having to be on a New Jersey Intensity or Corona Angels type of team. So while it's great that Ohio has so many Div. I softball schools, it also serves to ensure that I won't see probably a single Ohio team when I go to Huntington Beach twice this fall for the showcases run by Gary Haning, and why I see practically no Ohio teams at the Colorado Fireworks or Independence Day tournaments, no Ohio teams at the Premier Nationals, etc.

I hate to keep drawing comparisons to my current location, but it fits perfectly here. The state of Washington teams have only two local Div. I options (UW and Seattle), so they know they must travel to be seen by Div. I coaches at any level. As a result, they are constantly in California, Colorado and anywhere else the top showcases take place. Other than a couple, these teams aren't any better than the Ohio teams, and I think those teams are better simply because of the schedule they play and the commitment required is so large that girls and teams put more time into the game than most Ohio girls and teams. Because of this investment of time, money and effort, they will wind up with probably many more signees in the top conferences than Ohio will.

This is neither bad nor good, it just is what it is (I am really tired of that phrase).

 

[default]

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out the seven, but it doesn't really matter.
If those girls or any other girls have a goal for themselves of NOT attending a college in Ohio or in the general NE area or they want to go to a college that recruits only from travel programs outside of NE, then I guess they have to go play for and where colleges would like to see them play.

I've seen players at "top" organizations that were good, but not what I would consider studs, leave that organization to play for a team over 500 miles away. They didn't get any better or practices any more, but they were playing for well known "gold" organizations. And it usually got them to the college they wanted, but is it for education or DI softball? Some of those girls were very disappointed in the amount of actually playing time over a 4 year period they had, and several had to extend their education time due to the demanding schedules of DI practices/games.

As a parent I am more concerned about where my daughters were getting an good education that would build a future for them. If softball or another sport can help achieve that goal (education opportunity) then great. I don't care if it is DI, NAIA, JC as long as they can support themselves in the future as adults.

It comes down to just what you want and how to go about achieving it.

I did ask someone from CA if there is true GOLD abilities in this area with all the increase in "gold" team titles. I was told that there is a whole new level above GOLD due to the level of teams abilities and number of teams. I'm not sure how true that is but it sounds like there is now a premier (former gold), gold (former A), A (former B), B (formerly rec), C ?

 

[default]

One other thing I noted in another thread: If one of the goals is to play college softball, parents are doing their girls no favors by demanding a roster of 11 or 12. If a college coach wants to watch a girl, they will watch her. If they have to come back a second time because a girl was sitting the bench the first time, they will do that.

When we get started with fall practice next week, I can't begin to describe how intense the competition is going to be for, first, roster spots, and, later, for playing time. We will wind up with a roster of 20-22 and will have 33 girls there on Monday, all of whom are pretty good players. Girls who are used to having a roster spot or playing time handed to them will be at a big disadvantage.

 

[default]

Ram, yes there is premiere now, which is where the Topflite Gold teams fled to last year to buffer themselves from all the new"GOLD" comers. Great points about an education that will sustain you the rest of your life. It's really not about the softball at all in that model. I like that.

 

[default]

One reason Ohio does not have this type of organization or team is that there are 11 Div. I softball colleges in Ohio. This makes it relatively easy for top Ohio players to get a Div. I scholarship without having to be on a New Jersey Intensity or Corona Angels type of team. So while it's great that Ohio has so many Div. I softball schools, it also serves to ensure that I won't see probably a single Ohio team when I go to Huntington Beach twice this fall for the showcases run by Gary Haning, and why I see practically no Ohio teams at the Colorado Fireworks or Independence Day tournaments, no Ohio teams at the Premier Nationals, etc.

I hate to keep drawing comparisons to my current location, but it fits perfectly here. The state of Washington teams have only two local Div. I options (UW and Seattle), so they know they must travel to be seen by Div. I coaches at any level. As a result, they are constantly in California, Colorado and anywhere else the top showcases take place. Other than a couple, these teams aren't any better than the Ohio teams, and I think those teams are better simply because of the schedule they play and the commitment required is so large that girls and teams put more time into the game than most Ohio girls and teams. Because of this investment of time, money and effort, they will wind up with probably many more signees in the top conferences than Ohio will.

This is neither bad nor good, it just is what it is (I am really tired of that phrase).

Something to add to that is population, Orange county in Cali has more people than the state of Ohio ( If my info is correct ) think of the athletes that they are capable of drawing from. And that is just one county. Which in its self explains why so many west coast kids come east looking for college schollies.......

There is nothing wrong with Ohio softball, But we are behind in a couple of ways.

We simply do not have the top level time and experience that west coast teams have.

We do not have the population that the west coast has

And we are behind the amount of playing time our kids can have in a season, compared to playing year round on the dirt.

And there is a definite power struggle between powers here in Ohio to control playing time ( OSHAA vs Travel Ball )

Somethings you as a parent can control. It is up to your daughter to discover what she wants and up to you as a parent to take the personal responsibility
to help her achieve what ever goals she sets.

Tim

 

[default]

BD, thread isn't about Cali vs. Ohio. It's about why are loads of OH Girls leaving OH to find the level of training, competition, and recruiting they need to meet their goals.

This is not a thread about Cali... Just that apparently neighboring states have more to offer at the 18u level. And I'm wondering why? Above comments have been fantastic... We already killed the Cali thing last year. lol

 

[default]

I wouldn't call 7 girls a "load" of girls.