Daddy Ball runs rampant in organizations....

[SMc4SMc]

If my 10U starting pitcher is picking up on things and asks "why doesn't she play she's better? " , and I've said nothing then it might be daddy ball

 

[SMc4SMc]

Regarding another player not playing versus coaches kid

 

[ificanbelikeu]

Some of the comments suggest, the bottom line is choose an organization carefully, and you truly get what you pay for!

Bingo! You have seen this repeated several times in this thread, established organizations may have that parent coach but their goals/agenda seems to be at a different aspect than most other lesser known teams.

 

[flarays]

I know a lot teams try to keep low and can't afford to pay coaches. You pay your coaches what are your fees?

Our coaches all receive a monthly fee in season and have all their expenses covered. That includes coaching gear and clothing. Our teams - 2 now and a 3rd this fall - have the ability to do fundraisers to offset all costs. That said the team fees per season depends on the team itself. I can tell you that until last year my particular team did three fundraisers a year and raised 13-15k. That pays for a good portion of the teams fees. Like we always say there are ways to afford a lot of softball stuff if you really want it.

 

[the cynic]

Sometimes it's the opposite , parents don't like the impartial non parent coach and want a cup cake parent to manipulate . Hows that for cynical ?

 

[Lester]

isn't there another form of mommy and daddy ball... the version where parents point and blame and have little effort in their own home to help their children athletes elevate mentally (school and sports) and physically? This is daddy ball too. Playing time isn't automatic just as bench time isn't. Yeah, there are some terrible situations in the coaching world. Remember, if you go to "practice with the team" to get all you need for the game regardless of status (elite, so-called elite, average, yada yada yada) you are missing the real goals and sorely mistaken on what it takes to progress in any sport or activity. It does go both ways.

 

[Scott_K]

Nice post Tom! Agree 100%

 

[Renmad]

I think coaching is the hardest job in the world. You are probably only going to make 5 parents happy at anytime. Any play you are either a hero or a zero providing the outcome! The most underpaid job there is!!! Thank you!!

 

[eagleone]

Why not? We will have three teams in the fall and all will have non-parent coaches that receive compensation.

I agree with Mark,

Why is it so bad to start thinking about paying coaches? The select soccer coaches and the JO volleyball coaches get paid. I would think this would help attract girls that played in college and have free summers to come back and coach. I would have always been willing to pay a few hundred extra for a coach that had some credentials. Would it be worth $300 per player to have 2 non parent coaches that can help girls get better and help them get recruited. I enjoy coaching the team that I have no daughters on. I never have to worry about what parents think of playing time and if my kid is playing too much or not enough and I never feel like I have to refer a college coach to another one of our coaches like I did when I coached my daughter. I would think parents would be willing to pay travel expenses plus maybe $3000 for 2 coaches to split between them. When you look at the big picture of what you spend on softball $300 to $500 is not much to have non parent qualified coaches. Would go to work every day if you were not getting paid?

Glen

 

[Buckeye_bomber00]

I agree with Mark,

Why is it so bad to start thinking about paying coaches? The select soccer coaches and the JO volleyball coaches get paid. I would think this would help attract girls that played in college and have free summers to come back and coach. I would have always been willing to pay a few hundred extra for a coach that had some credentials. Would it be worth $300 per player to have 2 non parent coaches that can help girls get better and help them get recruited. I enjoy coaching the team that I have no daughters on. I never have to worry about what parents think of playing time and if my kid is playing too much or not enough and I never feel like I have to refer a college coach to another one of our coaches like I did when I coached my daughter. I would think parents would be willing to pay travel expenses plus maybe $3000 for 2 coaches to split between them. When you look at the big picture of what you spend on softball $300 to $500 is not much to have non parent qualified coaches. Would go to work every day if you were not getting paid?

Glen

After hitting lessons, pitching lessons, and $300-500 a weekend to travel, logically it would be worth quality coaching. And no, I would not do what I do if I did not get paid!!

 

[SoCal_Dad]

The org for my DD's first TB team had a policy that coaches were not compensated, just reimbursed for their expenses. Absent that, there is nothing stopping coaches from being compensated. They just need to include it in their team budget and be upfront about it during tryouts.

Experienced coaches (i.e. have already been through the age group) that know how to develop players/team, put together a schedule with the best events and/or have good college contacts should be in high demand. People that feel the overall cost to play on that team is worthwhile to them will find a way to pay it.

There are quite a few coaches that are compensated on SoCal teams, however very few make significant money from it. For most, the stipends mainly cover their incidental expenses and don't come close to properly compensating them for their time nor for taking time off from their regular job for the team. The compensation is obviously more important to the former college players that can't afford to incur additional expenses and can use a little extra spending money.

 

[tjsmize3]

Experienced coaches (i.e. have already been through the age group) that know how to develop players/team, put together a schedule with the best events and/or have good college contacts should be in high demand. People that feel the overall cost to play on that team is worthwhile to them will find a way to pay it.

... This is why I have never been in favor of paying coaches. In general, it just seems to me that the kind of coach SoCal mentions (motivated, organized, knowledgeable, connected etc...) would more often than not have zero interest in taking a $1,000 - 2,000 stipend from their team. This is just a guess, but I would think you would have to get somewhere in the neighborhood of $7,000 - 10,000 before it would motivate someone enough with that skill set and I just don't see a lot of parents in NE Ohio willing to add another $600 - 900 to their team fees to cover that. Plus, PAYING the coach now adds a whole additional layer of parental expectations that may or may not be realistic (e.g. scholarship $$$).
I do think the BEST situation is where you have a very experienced and connected NON-PARENT/NON-PAID coach running the show. But, I would bet the majority of guys with that resume started off as parent coaches and just kept going for the love of the game.

 

[ApogeeDemon]

What about nonparent coaches with the resume. It seems parents will shell out hundreds of dollars on camps that last a couple hours but don't seem to want to pay a coach for hundreds of hours with their daughters. Look at private lessons. 30,40,50 bucks an hour?? Some go as high as 100 bucks an hour. They aren't teaching nuclear science at Berkley. Most of the information can be found online and in books. I'm not saying pay them 10,000 bucks or anything that crazy but paying a quality coach something is ok in my opinion, especially if he/she doesn't have a daughter on the team.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

... This is why I have never been in favor of paying coaches. In general, it just seems to me that the kind of coach SoCal mentions (motivated, organized, knowledgeable, connected etc...) would more often than not have zero interest in taking a $1,000 - 2,000 stipend from their team.

The head coach of my DD's 16U team last year fits the bill and only charged $1,000 for the year. He also budgeted another $1,000 that he used to bring in various AC's to help him with practices and games. He started the team and obviously didn't do it for the money.

This is just a guess, but I would think you would have to get somewhere in the neighborhood of $7,000 - 10,000 before it would motivate someone enough with that skill set and I just don't see a lot of parents in NE Ohio willing to add another $600 - 900 to their team fees to cover that.

$7-10K? I may know of 1 or 2 that get that kind of money from a single FP team's fees (FWIW, 2x that for club sokker) and they have very large rosters (18-20+). A few make more from multiple teams in their org and/or having players take private lessons from them. The asst HC of our current 18U Premier team has the qualities I described and is the most highly compensated coach we've ever had because of her approach - she charges $30/player/month, which is very reasonable. Over 9 months, that comes to $270/player. She is highly compensated by her regular job, so she doesn't do it for the money - it certainly doesn't affect her standard of living. In fact, she voluntarily helps other teams in the org. It's possible the money she receives from our team just makes it her first priority.

I do think the BEST situation is where you have a very experienced and connected NON-PARENT/NON-PAID coach running the show. But, I would bet the majority of guys with that resume started off as parent coaches and just kept going for the love of the game.

No kidding. However, they get tired of paying for the privilege of coaching ungrateful parents' kids and consequently stop doing it. As I described in my previous post, most coaches like I described just want a modest stipend that covers their incidental expenses (e.g. mileage, meals, etc.) and pays for some refreshments that help them tolerate the grief they receive. It simply eliminates one of the nagging things that makes them second-guess themselves for continuing on.

 

[wow]

One thing missing from these posts is expectations. If a coach tells parents and kids up front what role they will play and what the vision is for the team (beyond the first year) it makes everyone on the same page. Too often coaches feel like, "its my way or the highway". Look, I am by no mean advocating a parent or group of parents trump a coach but the best coaches have open and honest communication. They share the good and the bad. That's not easy for most coaches. Knowing the game is one piece of the puzzle. The best coaches also assess and have one on ones with parents and players throughout the season. The other piece is dealing with adversity. Nothing in fastpitch is easy. even the best teams have times when things go bad. Coaches have to understand, prior to getting involved its a FULL time job, and when you cant invest an additional 40/hrs per week, in addition to your real job, maybe its not the fight fit. Daddy ball is EVERWHERE, that's not always a bad thing. I have seen coaches pull their own kids and leave them in too long. However the line for me is when they put the development of their kid or agenda over the good of the team.

 

[The3dm]

I have actually seen problems with non-parent coaches being influenced by parents to create a pseudo daddy-ball environment, usually younger female coaches but on occasion older ones as well. And as a coach I have experienced parents that are very friendly and inviting until they realize that it will not get their child any favor, then the fangs come out.

A lot of this behavior comes from wanting to protect your children and others are simply crappy people. JMHO

 

[CARDS]

Issues that teams /parents face happen with parent or non parent coaches.
IMO one is not any better or worse than the other and they both have pros and cons. SoCal did a good job of hitting many of the areas how it works out west.
If a coach is not very good they generally do not stay around long term parent or non parent. If parents feel that they get a better value with paying a non parent coach so be it it?s their money and there are some good non parent coaches.

As far as finding the right coach, Its not that hard to see if a coach has been willing to put in the time to become a better coach. GOOGLE the coach and see what comes up... If they are active in the Fastpitch/coaching community you will find information to help you in choosing the right fit. This does not always mean the coach is highly skilled but it is an indicator of their investment in the art of coaching Generally the parent coached team with three or more years experience has a track record and is vested in the program/team and area..

At the younger ages 10/12U I have found that unless it is a veteran coach that is bringing up a new group it will be hard to find coaching info because new coaches like new players/parents are learning all the ins and outs of coaching so, it is hard to say or lable a first or second year coach is good or bad.

One thing I have noticed in our area with non parent coaches that are current college players or recent college graduates is they generally have larger aspirations and the travel team is a stepping stone in the coaching ladder that can come at any time opportunity arises (even in season). Other non parent coaches usually use it as an avenue for business with private instruction, equipment sales, recruiting services etc and a hand full for just a small supplemental (break even) income doing what they like to do. It dosent mean they are better or worse coaches just in it from a different view than a parent lead team.

 

[CSA]

I agree with Cards. We are in 12u in our 2nd season of travel ball. Like Card said we are young and learning the select/travel ball experience. After 2 years of what we been through though I would gladly spend the extra money to pay for quality coaches. But the question I have is how do you know if they are telling the truth on their resumes? Had a coach tell the team that they had college experience and trust me it couldn't have been farther from the truth. We was taking our daughter to a hitting instructor and they looked at me and said if you wanna waste your money that's up to you but we can teach you what they will and it's free here.

 

[ApogeeDemon]

I agree with Cards. We are in 12u in our 2nd season of travel ball. Like Card said we are young and learning the select/travel ball experience. After 2 years of what we been through though I would gladly spend the extra money to pay for quality coaches. But the question I have is how do you know if they are telling the truth on their resumes? Had a coach tell the team that they had college experience and trust me it couldn't have been farther from the truth. We was taking our daughter to a hitting instructor and they looked at me and said if you wanna waste your money that's up to you but we can teach you what they will and it's free here.

CSA--I would look at resume plus track record. Just because someone played college ball, that doesn't mean they can teach hitting. In hitting, there are styles and constants. Most great hitters do many of the same things but do have different styles. Find an instructor with a good track record. I would say you should go until muscle memory happens. Then only for tune ups. If you don't establish muscle memory, you are only throwing away money. Your coach probably does have the info. but how much one on one can he/she give at a team practice. Learn from the hitting instructor and practice it every day! In addition, paying money does not guarantee success. Great hitters are rare because much of it is hand/eye coordination, reaction ability, eye sight, etc.

 

[CARDS]

I agree with Cards. We are in 12u in our 2nd season of travel ball. Like Card said we are young and learning the select/travel ball experience. After 2 years of what we been through though I would gladly spend the extra money to pay for quality coaches. But the question I have is how do you know if they are telling the truth on their resumes? Had a coach tell the team that they had college experience and trust me it couldn't have been farther from the truth. We was taking our daughter to a hitting instructor and they looked at me and said if you wanna waste your money that's up to you but we can teach you what they will and it's free here.

When looking at resumes ask direct questions from the resume and I hate to keep saying it.."GOOGLE" for Information.

Experienced coaches generally are members of PD groups like linked-in or coach book. Most are NFCA members and if you are looking for college exposure connections they should have a decent list of schools/coaches they are in regular communication with .
Their resume should includ working camps clinics etc. I know from my experience working the NFCA camps was a game changer. Having the time to talk to the college coaches at all levels on what they were looking for even down to some pre game warm up no no?s..Helped me direct our ladies. Also, seeing the talent at the events allowed me to see where my players stacked up...

I would also suggest getting into an organization that has been there and done that. The bigger organizations can help and have developed coaches as well as players. But; as ApogeeDemon stated it does not guarantee success.
Many factors to consider as Les stated on what success is..