The Bretman signal has been activated....

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Bret...can you explain to me the ball in the circle rule again lol, I think I know it but I might be missing a portion of it lol.

This weeked we had bases loaded, the girl at the plate struck out for our first out, I noticed their entire team ran into the circle to give the pitcher five lol, we were getting killed and we had to get something going, so our next girl up also strikes out and the entire team ran into the circle again, I had explained to my base runner to run home if they all went into the circle again, so when the second girl struck and they threw the ball back into the circle and the team ran out to the circle to give her five my runner ran home. I really didnt think the ump was paying attention to my runner, there was only one, I wasnt sure what the outcome would be, but we had to try something. The Ump (there was only one) allowed the run to count despite obvious objections from the other team...I wouldnt have argued if he called my girl out, like I said I was just trying to get some emotion out of my kids.

BTW we did come back and win lol, but I really just wanted to know the actual rule.

 

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This falls under the Look Back Rule. The basics of the rule are:

- If the pitcher has possession of the ball within the pitching circle, and...

- Is not making a play on a runner...

- Then the Look Back Rule is in effect and any runners are restricted in what they can or can't do.

If a runner is off her base when the LBR kicks in, then the runner must immediately either advance to the next base or retreat to the previous one. When the LBR is in effect, the runner may stop ONCE between the bases and may reverse direction ONE time.

If she stops in one spot and stands there more than a couple of seconds, the ball is dead and the runner is out.

If she stops a second time, the ball is dead and the runner is out.

If she reverses direction a second time, the ball is dead and the runner is out.

If a runner is stopped ON a base when the LBR kicks in, she may not leave it. If she does, dead ball, runner out.

If the ball is not in the circle, not possessed by the pitcher, or if the pitcher makes or attempts a play the LBR is suspended and the runner can do whatever she wants.

There are other ins and outs and details to this rule, but those are the basics. On the play you described, "the devil is in the details". Your runner may or may not have violated the Look Back Rule depending on those details.

Was your runner standing ON third base when the ball was returned to the pitcher? If so, then she should have been out under the LBR.

Was she OFF the base? Once the pitcher got the ball, as long as she didn't stand in one spot for a prolonged period, start to advance/retreat then stop a second time, or reverse her direction a second time, she would be free to advance to home. But if she did any of that stuff, she should have been called out.

Did that clear it up...or make it more confusing?

 

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I'll throw my 2 pennies in the ring.

Once the pitcher recieves the ball in the circle, then the runner has to make up her mind as to which direction to go. If she changes her mind, she is committed to that direction.

The rules say that the runner has to continue to the proper base. It does not say how fast that advancement must be, just as long as she is advancing in the right direction (of course, how fast can probably be a judgement call by the umpire). So, as long as she keeps advancing toward home until the catcher is well clear, then she would be legal (at least in my mind). But, I'm just a bleacher dad, not an umpire.

You picked the right time (only 1 umpire) to do this. A humbling lesson learned by all I hope.

 

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Where was the ball? Inside the glove? I don't know if that makes a difference or not.

 

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Doesn't matter if it is in the glove or not.

All that matters is IF the runner is OFF the base ( at the point of the ball reaching the glove of the pitcher within the circle) and that runners next move. If the runner starts advancing forward towards home..she must commit herself to home totally.

It's the same principle of the girl on third and the batter walks on base on balls and runs to first and continues to second ...even with the pitcher having the ball in the cirlcle. The batter-runner never stopped and has the right to go to second.

 

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good information....she was coming back to third when they all ran into the circle, where the ball was in the pitchers mitt, the runner then changed directions and ran home. I admitted I really had no idea what the outcome would be, and I had no intentions of arguing if she was called out.

 

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Sorry for the Hijack, but this was highschool, ball hit towards 2nd baseman, she is charging the ball reaches same spot as baserunner is on her way to second, no actual collision but 2nd basemen really pulls up to not collide with base runner. Isn't it still runner interference or does their actually have to be contact.

 

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Contact is NOT a requirement of interference (or, obstruction, for that matter).

If the runner's position or proximity to the fielder hindered her opportunity to field the ball, interference can be called.

Some examples that illustrate different ways a play like this can go:

- Fielder is well back behind the baseline, stationary, waiting for the ball to come to her. Runner crosses in front of the fielder while running straight ahead toward the next base. Not interfernce, as the fielder had ample room and opportunity to field the ball and the runner did nothing other than legally advance to the next base.

- Fielder is well back behind the baseline, stationary, waiting for the ball to come to her. Runner crosses in front of the fielder and stops to screen the fielders view or purposely times it so she will pass directly in front of the fielder as the ball reaches her. Interference. Even though the runner was some distance in front of the fielder, her actions went beyond a normal effort to advance to the next base.

- Fielder is charging in to field the ball. The runner crosses in front of her close enough that she must check up, pause or otherwise alter her chosen path to the ball. The fielder has the absolute right of way when fielding a batted ball and this should be ruled as interference.

- The obvious example we've seen before- Fielder is in the act of fielding the ball and the runner crashes into her. This is interference.

- A less obvious example that drives home the point that contact is not necessary- Fielder is in the act of fielding the ball and the runner comes close to her a screams, "Miss it!", at the top of her lungs. This is regardedas verbal interference and the runner is out.

 

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good information....she was coming back to third when they all ran into the circle, where the ball was in the pitchers mitt, the runner then changed directions and ran home. I admitted I really had no idea what the outcome would be, and I had no intentions of arguing if she was called out.

Still might be a legal play- it depends on the timing and sequence of events.

If your runner was walking back toward third the instant that the pitcher got the ball, she would still be allowed to stop once, then either head directly forward or back without stopping/reversing a second time.

If she was already stopped the instant the pitcher got the ball, that would be her one allowable stop. Once she started back toward third she would be committed to third base and out if she then reversed toward home.

This can be a tough call for one umpire because you are really splitting hairs on the exact moment the Look Back Rule goes into effect. But if you're alert and know what to look for, it's pretty easy to get both the runner and the pitcher into your field of view.

 

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I would not want my infielders going to give the pitcher "five" after each out with a baserunner.

 

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Thanks, I got away with one.

 

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Told last night by an umpire, and I use that word losely, that Demarini Pheonix and Rocket Techs hace been banned by Ohio High School.

 

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I still see Rocket Techs daily in high school games.

 

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ditto.....still seeing rocket techs.

 

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there is another thread about CF4 being illegal?? whats up with this?
http://www.game-ex.com/vb3/showthread.php?t=25236

 

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What about the Pheonix? DD used hers last night at a HS game and nobody said anything to her. And what the H E double hockey sticks is it about not making a HS field have an outfield fence?????? (and to top this off, having it outfield to outfield with a baseball field)????? Ohhhhh, maybe that's why her bat wasn't illegal....?

 

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About the ball in the circle thing...Isn't it the easiest way to stop a pickle then, to throw the ball to the pitcher in the circle once the runner commits back to third????? Ahhhhhhhggggghhhh. I am sooo confused????

help me

 

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Thanks Bretman, I argued with both the coach and ump they were both wrong in this instance.