Bretman Signal AGAIN!!!!!!!!

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Runner on First. Ground ball is hit to second baseman who comes in and to her left to field the ball. Baserunner jumps the ball in front of the fielder avoiding ALL contact with the ball and fielder. Fielder does not cleanly field the ball. Batter-runner safe at first and runner safe a second. Field umpire calls obstruction on the runner from first to second. Is this the correct call? This did not cost us the game just would like to know what the correct call is. We argued there was no contact with the fielder and the runner jumped the ball.

 

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Oooh, lemme guess. I say correct call if in the umps judgement she hindered the fielders attemp to field the ball. Do I get a bretman gold star?

 

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Field umpire blew the call... plain and simple. No contact.

We had a similar thing in Beavercreek this past weekend on my field. Ball hit to ss who was coming in to field the ball. Runner on second base running towards third.

The Shortstop pulled up and the runner went in front of her (in the base line) . Shortstop bobbled the ball and all runners were safe.

No contact made.

I do wish these umpire associations would have a real umpire teach their classes. I have never seen more pitful umpires ever in my life on the field. They seem to come from associations who have the umpires take a test in pencil and then give them the answers to the question in the end. EVERYBODY GETS A 100 and perfect score....lol

 

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I have no complaints about the umps. Other than this call. They were great worked hard and made some tough close calls.

 

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I disagree. This is a judgement call: "Interference is an act which interfers with, obstructs, impedes, hinders, or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play" You must stop or run behind the fielder. My call.

 

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I've always been told and believed it is up to the defensive player to be aggressive with the play. If they choose to stop and allow the runner to run, no obstruction, if the attempt to field the ball and are hit, runner obstruction.

 

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I agree with SBfamily, judgement call. If the umpire judged that the runner hindered the fielders ability to field the ball cleanly, its an out. Correct me if I'm wrong, don't confuse obstuction with interference.

 

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You would have to see the play and how the runner actually jumped over the ball. There does not have to be contact to get the interference call, but the runner basicaly would have to dance a jig in front of fielder and then move/ or jump over ball right before it gets there and then the judgement could easily be made. But it sounds like the fielder gave her room to run and she jumped the ball, perfectly legal, no interference. Just MHO.

 

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That's the rule Crush. You hit it on the head.

 

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since we going to vent just a tad on our buddies in blue I'll throw in these 2 gems from berliner this weekend


Older ump to our catcher as she was up in her throwing position "Honey you are going to have to stay down a little lower so I can see"

Same guy tells our pitcher not to grunt , she is scaring the other team (they were up several runs at this point)

Then the best was the opening at bat of the game VS the lasers gold . My kid got the shaft in this manner : Full count , next pitch is off the plate and low , he throws his arm out quickly and grunts something ( my kid said she heard strike ) As she is walking towards the dugout I'm saying from behind home
" Don't worry about that one , it was off the plate " He kinda walks towards our dugout as our hitter goes into the dugout and loudly and clearly says "the runner is now out for leaving the field of play after ball 4 " . Everyone was stunned , both teams were kinda looking at each other . I tryed to use it as a teaching tool , said to my kid "unless you hear strike ask the ump for the call if you don't know" she said the guy said "Strike" > MD

 

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since we going to vent ?just a tad on our buddies in blue I'll throw in these 2 gems from berliner this weekend


Older ump to our catcher as she was up in her throwing position "Honey you are going to have to stay down a little lower so I can see"

Same guy tells our pitcher not to grunt , she is scaring the other team (they were up several runs at this point)

Then the best was the opening at bat of the game VS the lasers gold . My kid got the shaft in this manner : ? Full count , next pitch is off the plate and low , he throws his arm out quickly and grunts something ?( my kid said she heard strike ) ? As she is walking towards the dugout I'm saying from behind home
" Don't worry about that one , it was off the plate " ? He kinda walks towards our dugout as our hitter goes into the dugout and loudly and clearly says "the runner is now out for leaving the field of play after ball 4 " ?. Everyone was stunned , both teams were kinda looking at each other . ?I tryed to use it as a teaching tool , said to my kid "unless you hear strike ?ask the ump for the call if you don't know" ?she said the guy said "Strike" ? ?> ?MD

Seems I owe bretman a mask, ball bag and new clicker. Nice job bretman....wait....did statman get thrown out??

 

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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH LOL You got me You ask that our games be called like LL , in just a couple instances they were. Actually the umps were OK , most of the games were blow outs were it did'nt seem to matter much (at least in 12u) but the thing with my kid leading off the game really hacked me off. I was suprised he did'nt give me a warning. maybe it was karma LOL MD

also as I was walking past a group of OFC regulars some smart @#$ coach hollers out " that guy in the white shirt is Daddy Dice" ;D MD

 

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Well, that umpire in that story wasn't me! ?

I don't really know if any of the OFC regulars participated in or saw any of my games at Berliner. All of the ones I met were before, between or after games. I was on diamond #9 (16U) for Saturday pool play and #13 (12U) the first and third games of Sunday's brackets.

On to the obstruction/interference...

- I hope that your umpire really called "interference" on the runner, not "obstruction". Interference is an offensive infraction, obstruction is an infraction by the defense.

- Contact, while possibly a sign of obstruction or interference, is not a requirement.

- Crush1 pretty much nails it. And SBFamily is right about the judgment part.

The fielder has the absolute right-of-way when fielding a batted ball. The runner is obligated to avoid interfering with her. She has the option of checking-up, stopping or taking any path she chooses to go around the fielder.

If the path the runner chooses puts her in close enough proximity to the fielder that her presense there distracts, impedes or confuses the fielder, that can be interference- even without contact.

And it's all umpire judgment. Right off the top of my head, I can think of several different ways this scenario can play out. (That's a lot of typing! ?:-/)

* For all of these examples, assume a runner on first (R1). Batted ball to F4:

PLAY #1) Fielder is well-back of the runner (maybe behind the base line) stopped, stationary and waiting for the ball (sharply hit). Runner is going in a straight line to second, several feet ahead of the fielder- far enough away that her presence should not be a distraction.

She might jump over the ball, or come close to it's path, but as long is she is running straight ahead in a normal manner this probably should not be interference.

PLAY #2) Fielder is playing in, near baseline. Batted ball is a slow roller that F4 must charge. R1's path crosses the path of the approaching fielder, causing the fielder to stop, or pull-up, before she reahes the ball.

That can be interference- even without contact. If the runner prevents the fielder from taking her chosen path to the ball (and there was an actual play on the ball to be made), then the likely call is interference.

PLAY #3) Fielder in act of fielding ball. Runner runs in front of her stepping inches away from her glove, which is down on the ground. The runner's close proximity causes the fielder to turn her head, or the runner's body screens the fielder's vision and view of the ball.

Can be ruled as interference.

PLAY #4) Runner stops in baseline, positioning herself in front of fielder. Possibly makes several "shuffle steps" or waves her arms in a manner that, while designed to look like efforts to avoid the oncoming ball, the umpire judges were actually an effort to distract the fielder.

That's interference.

PLAY #5) Runner positions herself close to the fielder and screams, "MINE! I GOT IT, I GOT IT!" LOOK OUT!!!.

That can be verbal interference.

You could probably come up with a few more (including, the ever-popular "runner slams into fielder as she is fielding the ball&quot. The point is that beyond the written rule, these calls require a good deal of umpire judgment. there are some grey areas where a call might go either way. It all depends on what the umpire sees and how he judges it (and, to a large extent, it depends on how much experience the umpire has had in making these kind of split-second calls). ? ?

 

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What's a runner supposed to do in this situation? We were in a game where the second baseman came up to field the ball right in the baseline. Our runner ran behind the fielder and the umpire called her out for being out of the baseline. Is there any possible way to run behind a fielder without being called out for being out of the baseline?

 

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If the fielder is in the baseline, your runner should have been given the right to run behind the fielder to avoid interference. . ?Your umpire is wrong, unless your runner was blatant. ?I'm sure bretman can cut and past it for you.
Nice to have talked to your Saturday Bretman. ?It was a long ?13 hour day.

Had my NSA rule book with me, I was going to tease you , since you told me you have not worked many NSA tourneys. Watched one young pitcher replant on about every other pitch. Pitching 3.1 NSA. She would rock and break contact with the rubber, on her plant foot, after taking her sign from the catcher.. Field umpire wouldn't call it. I was just watching and one of the coaches saw my rule book and asked me about it. Gave him your advice, going to the field umpire correctly instead of the plate umpire. They still wouldn't call it,.

 

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Georges, that was the absolutely wrong call!

A runner should be called out for "leaving her basepath" (deviating more than three feet to either side of that line) [highlight]ONLY[/highlight] when she does so to avoid a [highlight]TAG[/highlight] by a fielder.

A runner leaving her basepath to go AROUND a fielder in the act of fielding the ball is a perfectly legal option for the runner. She should NEVER be called out be cause she left the basepath to avoid the fielder who was fielding the ball.

This rule about a runner leaving the basepath, and doing it to avoid a fielder, is a commonly confused concept.

The only time a runner is ever required to "stay in her basepath" is when a defensive player has POSSESSION of the ball and is attempting to apply a TAG. Then- and only then!- is a runner ever required to run in a straight line directly to a base. Her basepath becomes a line from wherever she is on the field when the tag is being attempted and to the base she is trying to acheive.

Deviate from THAT line, while trying to avoid a tag, and the runner is out for "leaving the basepath".

 

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SBFamily, it was great to meet you out there, too!

In all my games, there were no obvious or blantant illegal pitches. When I was on the bases, I tried to watch the pitcher's feet as closely as possible. I didn't see any replants, leaps, losing contact with the rubber, crow hops or anything like that. I had zero complaints from any coaches about a pitcher's motion, delivery or legality.

Which was odd. Usually, somebody is going to say something about "crow hopping" or "pitching illegally" somewhere along the line!

I had one pitcher that wanted to step right on the rubber and throw, without getting her signal or letting the batter get set. I had to "hold up a hand" (ie: give the "do not pitch" signal) and slow her down quite a few times, but she was on the edge of an illegal "quick pitch" several times. It never really became an issue.

There was possibly one illegal pitch I saw, but did not call. As the base umpire, I was mainly watching the pitcher's feet. The plate umpire has a better view of the pitcher's hands and front of her body. Once, while on the bases, I saw a pitcher: step on the plate (legally), bring her hands together (legally), then separated her hands briefly to swat a fly or swipe her hair or something. She then quickly brought her hands back together and completed a normal pitch.

Technically, That is a double-touch. The pitcher is committed to pitch when the hands first separate. No one said anything and by the time it registered with my brain she was about ready to throw the next pitch.

It would have been a technically correct call that probably would have solicited some grumbles from the coach...

 

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Sounds like it depends on how bad the umpires are which call will be correct! LOL

had a definite inteference couple weeks ago and was told no contact was made, but there was no attempt by the runner to stop, slow down, go behind the short stop trying to make the routine out!

Win some, lose some!

 

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We had a girl strike out on two pitches in Burton! That was definitely a first. When we asked the plate umpire to check with the base umpire, he agreed that it was strike three. We all saw a ball fouled over the backstop and then a half-swing called a strike. They did ask the visitor's scorekeeper who agreed with the umpires. We were winning the game so it just became a running joke during the remaining innings, but after the game their score keeper told our coach that she was mistaken and did have only two pitches on that batter.

 

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Here's the situation. Pop up to first, first basemen going after ball. Batter hits the first basemen trying to catch the ball. First basemen missed the ball. Probably should of caught the ball. Umpire ruled the the contact was incidental and the batter was safe.

Is there such a thing as incidental contact?

Was this ruling correct?

Thanks