Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Pitching speed

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Saw pitching coach stand in batters box with radar gun, and move gun towards pitched ball as fast as he can. How much do you think this increases his reading. I was told 5 to 7 mph. depending on gun ??????

 

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I have never heard of that. Doesn't sound right - if that were true then state troopers couldn't clock your speed while driving in the opposite direction or driving behind you at a different speed than you are driving.

 

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Why would he do that in the first place? I can think of no logical reason to do that. If you want an inflated number, just make one up and save the expense of a radar gun. Am I missing something?

 

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stp12 your comparing a 100 radar gun to a laser gun that costs thousands. Not sure why he did that was hoping someone could help me out on the answer ??

 

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I know from clocking my own DD and other pitchers, that low downward moving pitches have a tendacy to read slightly faster. Based on that knowledge and what I've been told by a few other people, there are certain pitching coaches that will move their guns forward and downward at the release of a pitch to make it seem like a girl is pitching faster. I have not personally witnessed this, but it would explain some of the 65-75m.p.h speeds I've been told certain 13y.o throw.

 

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I'm guessing that this coach hammers nails with a coping saw?? It's like any tool. When used correctly, it will give you good, accurate information. The science may be complicated, but the use of the tool is simple and basic. Most guns come with basic instructions. If not, instructions can be found with Google.

 

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Off the subject but speed is overrated....Ball movement is what makes a pitch effective.

Subject that likely has been beat to death!

Sorry...just a pet peeve

 

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mcoburn is correct. At the rec level a pitcher call just wind up and blow a fastball past a batter, but as the girls get older and more developed that same fastball will be jacked out of the park.

 

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Was not asking about speed just effect of radar gun use

 

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Radar guns use the Doppler principle to measure speed. They have a transmitter and receiver. Simply put, a signal is transmitted at a very high frequency, which bounces off the target (ball) and is picked up by the gun's receiver. The timed difference between at least two (usually more) different signals is processed by a signal processor, converted to mph, and displayed. It makes no difference if the ball is coming toward you or moving away from you. What DOES make a difference is the angle of the signal to the ball path. I have a Bushnell gun that has worked very well for my purposes. The manufacturer states that more than 12 degrees off axis will yield bogus results. So will moving the gun around while transmitting.

Many "experts" will tell you that the Juggs gun is more accurate. They will argue that the speed at ball release is more valuable than speed at the plate. And on and on. For my uses, this is all irrelevant. I wanted the gun to measure AVERAGE pitch speed. I don't care if it's at the plate or at release. Neither do college coaches. Everyone should know the ball slows 2 - 3 mph before it reaches the plate.

I had my gun checked, and it is very close to within +/- 1 mph. What more could you want? The important data to keep track of is the average speed of each type of pitch. That is what the college coaches want. Fastball speed, changeup speed, drop-curve speed, rise speed, etc. Actually, it's the DIFFERENCE between these speeds that's important, which is what keeps batters off balance. It helps to have a 63 mph fastball, because you then have a much greater RANGE for the off-speed pitches.

 

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So how much does moving the gun towards and down on pitch effect reading

 

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It will vary, depending on the angle, the movement(slow or sudden jerk) and the gun. But as you previously stated, as much as 5-7m.p.h, I don't think too much more than that though. Valley and Mc didn't see the true point of the post.

 

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Thank You Shock I was just wondering

 

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catchersdad?? What do you WANT to hear??? Why even use a gun at all if it's used incorrectly?? Am I missing something here? If you move the gun, the reading will be inaccurate AND useless.

 

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I was just wondering how far off the reading would be I didnt think it was that big of a deal. Was just a simple question. I was seeing 14 year old girls being clocked at 60- 70mph and didnt think it could be right. So it was just a question to see if someone new how far off the reading actually was.

 

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Here is the best article I have found on pitching speed and radar guns. Its from a pitching web site:

Average pitching speed by age varies substantially from region to region. Warm weather states in the U.S. (southern California, Arizona, Texas, Florida, etc.) offer athletes the opportunity to practice and play their sport outdoors the year around. Therefore, we have seen consistently that average pitchers in those areas have faster average speeds than their counterparts in colder weather regions.



(2) Pitchers, pitching coaches, and parents all like to brag about their pitcher's "60 mph fast ball". It is a nice goal,
but obviously speed alone doesn't make a successful pitcher. Here is an unpopular statement from me, but the truth nonetheless: In most cities, considerably less than 5% (and sometimes only 1% or 2%) of all teenage pitchers consistently hit an "honest" 60 mph in games.


(3) From what we have seen and experienced, an average pitcher in most parts of the U.S. would have pitching speeds somewhat like this for her age:

11-years old - High 30's to Mid 40's

12-years old - Low 40's to Upper 40's


13-years old - Mid 40's to Low-50's


14-years old - 50+


Average high school pitcher - 53-57 mph


Again, these are NOT recommendations...just what we have seen from girls of all sizes, in a variety of leagues and competition levels, in various parts of the U.S.

(4) Radar guns and other speed measuring devices vary CONSIDERABLY in accuracy. An $800 Jugs speed gun is accurate to within ? of a mile per hour. But obviously, a $20 softball with an LCD speed readout, or a bucket that measures speed, or an $89 radar gun...none of those should be expected to be close that kind of accuracy.


(5) Some pitchers tighten up and slow down when they see a radar gun. It is natural to think that "I have to pitch harder" when she sees a speed gun behind the catcher. "Trying" to throw hard often means tighter muscles and slower pitching. Relax!


(6) Pitch speed MIGHT be slightly slower when there is a batter at the plate. The majority of pitchers tend to be more conservative in a game than in practice...practice pitches are often faster than in a game situation.


Do you want to reprint this article or use it on your website or in your newsletter?
As long as it is not for profit, our only requirement is that you first notify us, then include the following sentence:
Article by Gerald Warner of PitchSoftball.com

 

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good post sbfamily

 

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catchersdad,
I can relate to the question you ask. As funny as it may sound, there are pitching coaches who move the gun towards the pitcher. My daughter went to a very well known pitching coach in our area, and he did the same thing. I've often wondered how much speed it added. I've heard all kinds of numbers, from 3mph to 7mph. I guess it would depend on how fast the gun is moved forward. Her new coach does not move the gun. Maybe next time she has the gun at lessons, we will try clocking both ways to see the effect it may have.

Joe

 

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Radar guns use the Doppler principle to measure speed. They have a transmitter and receiver. Simply put, a signal is transmitted at a very high frequency, which bounces off the target (ball) and is picked up by the gun's receiver. The timed difference between at least two (usually more) different signals is processed by a signal processor, converted to mph, and displayed. It makes no difference if the ball is coming toward you or moving away from you. What DOES make a difference is the angle of the signal to the ball path. I have a Bushnell gun that has worked very well for my purposes. The manufacturer states that more than 12 degrees off axis will yield bogus results. So will moving the gun around while transmitting.

Actually Doppler "shift" is the measurement used to determine speed. Simply put a moving object will "squish" the radio waves of the RF pulse fired by the radar gun, thus changing its frequency. The frequency shift is a measurable constant and can be used to determine the moving objects speed. That shift is also additive. So, if the radar gun is moving toward the pitched ball at say, 30 MPH and the ball was pitched at 50 MPH the reading would be approx. (the additive properties are not 100%) 80 Mph. Police radar guns are hooked to the speedometer of the cruiser, therefore can compensate for the speed of the moving car. The coach would have to time the peak of their movement at the exact moment of when the gun's receiver picks up the returned pulse along with moving the gun in a straight path as well as moving it at a speed that would affect the measurement . Theoretically possible, but not likely.

Having said all of that, I would have to agree with the general consensus, why would a coach do it. The only thing I can think of is a weak coach trying appear a little better.

 

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As previously stated, I've been told of some pitching coaches who do just that. ?EXAMPLE: A girl who has been pitching with decent mechanics that has been clocked at a certain speed, let's say 52m.p.h, this girl then decides on a pitching coach or a different pitching coach. ?At first visit Dad boasts of DD accomplishments and speed while pitching coach watches DD, pitching coach then ask DD to make a couple adjustments and clocks her and wa-la 59m.p.h, pitching coach in Dad's eyes is pure genius. ?Very sad yes, but from what I hear very true. ?Took my own DD to a pitching coach for first time this year, gun has yet to come out.