Pitching and Pitchers Discussion pitching speed

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I'll stick to what i said waaay back on pg 1 the BEST 12's hit about 55-57 (propably LIVE in the 53-55 range) and the BEST 14's hit 60 (but live in the 56-58 range)

I said no Bushnell guns............

 

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So let me get this right you are saying that a pitcher that can throw 61 the first inning can not throw 61 in th 7th inning

I will say that..unless she is conditioned beyond belief her speed will drop off, I wont name names but the kid that throws a 64 mph rise in the first inning is a flat 60 by the 5th,,,,,,, depending on how many pitches shes thrown, the heat, a females curse once a month,staying up to late texting the night before.and so on, if a pitcher lived in a vaccum and had no outside indluences maybe her speed would remain consistant....dosent happen in the real world, at least not the world we have played in the last 6 years

Tim

 

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how many types of guns are there bushnell , Jugs , ____ , _____ Is Bushnell really that unreliable ? I have witnessed some dumb readings before , the guy using it said the batteries were low ? MD

 

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how many types of guns are there bushnell , Jugs , ____ , _____ Is Bushnell really that unreliable ? I have witnessed some dumb readings before , the guy using it said the batteries were low ? MD

Only the Jugs if you want accurate speed on your pitches. There is a reason the Bushnell is about a 100 bucks and the Jugs is about 800 bucks.

 

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I coach 11's and my 2 pitchers throw 50-51 and 45-47. You have to be pretty lucky to find one that throws alot faster than mid 50's for that age group. Most that we had come to our tryouts were about 39-40.

this sounds about right from my experience. I have 2 Ace's (11u) that throw the 12" ball now and the first time we gunned them one averaged 45-46 and the other 48. The next week it was up a couple mph and the other down a couple. The girls we passed on since we had our staff already were throwing all day at 40-41 and had good control. These low 40's speeds also include the other 2 pitchers I have that are #3 or #4 pitchers and are of course only 2 weeks into the larger ball and distance. All but one has devastating change ups and my the DD that throws consistantly hard all the time has a very good drop ball. The other one is hot on her tail!! Fun to see them push each other and they love feeding off of it! Spring time should be fun.

My oldest played 12u this past summer and I never saw anything over 50-51 during the 3 or 4 weekend tourney's I could get to. Might have been where we were. I'm sure they are out there. I did see some heat (probably 53-55)at Sluggerfest in the 12u 'A' bracket but my DD wasn't playing there.

 

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Only the Jugs if you want accurate speed on your pitches. There is a reason the Bushnell is about a 100 bucks and the Jugs is about 800 bucks.

Stalker makes a nice gun as well.

 

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Having a DD that pitches and being a very big part of her pitching I can share this. She hits 62 in her lessons after warm-ups. She gets clocked every lesson with a jugs gun. I have to say that I had one of those Bushnells and they are worthless. They can be plus or minus 5 each pitch, (i'll bet those dads love the plus 5's).

I really don't think that those bushnell guns are that far off. I was using one at our tryouts and it was pretty consistent. Of course there would be an annomoly here and there, but if a girl is throwing 51-52 for 10 pitches and a 58 pops off, I would treat that as a fluke and not record it as fact. Actually, the biggest issue we had with that gun was it would pick up the pitchers arm speed rather than the ball. This was usually due to operator error of letting the trigger go too soon (that was me btw). This would produce a reading in the high 20's or low 30's, ~again, so obvious only a fool would think that a snappy pitch just came in at 28mph. I am a tradesman, and I fully understand the whole you get what you pay for when it comes to tools. Ask my wife she will tell you of the thousands of bucks I spend on them! Is the Juggs a better gun and more accurate....Sure. Can you have a bushnell and get a accurate reading if you are willing to throw out the occasional annomoly and not preach that your 10U kid is throwing 65 mph?....Absolutely

 

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I claim to be "NO EXPERT" as a pitching instructor, But when I take my DD to UK for pitching lessons, Rachael Lawson strives more for RPS, then the actual MPH on the ball during the pitch. Scientists have studied the phenomenon and many have mathematically described the effect. More spin creates more curve, movement, rise, or hop. The DD trains with the RevFire pitching system. JMO


FASTPITCH! Anything else, And you're playing SLOW!

 

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I will say that..unless she is conditioned beyond belief her speed will drop off, I wont name names but the kid that throws a 64 mph rise in the first inning is a flat 60 by the 5th,,,,,,, depending on how many pitches shes thrown, the heat, a females curse once a month,staying up to late texting the night before.and so on, if a pitcher lived in a vaccum and had no outside indluences maybe her speed would remain consistant....dosent happen in the real world, at least not the world we have played in the last 6 years

Tim

ok no pitcher even one you have never seen could not get stronger during games

I try to teach my pitchers not to throw all out from the start on every pitch that is just throwing, if you actually PITCH during the game you should alway have a little xtra left when you need to reach back and throw it by someone.

again this was just a general speed of how fast girls from each age could throw when the thread started

 

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Poor technique will produce inaccurate readings no matter what type of gun is used. Any gun that is consistent within 1 to 2 mph is well within specs for reading pitch speeds, and the Bushnell (if working and USED properly) will suffice. Most problems come from not reading the instruction manual.

This has been an interesting re-hash of a thread that rolls around every year. You would think at least ONE of these fireballers would show up on a PAC Ten team.

After you see an honest 62 - 65 mph, you can tell the difference. Just like in baseball, folks wrongly think a TRUE 80 mph pitcher is throwing 90+. Then they witness a true 90+ mph pitch from a MLB pitcher. There is a BIG difference!

Throwing harder (more speed) as the game progresses: This can and does happen frequently. It has to do with tense, tight muscles. A pitcher who is not relaxed, or didn't warm up properly, can be quite tense (= slow) at first. Mental disposition can also affect their mechanics. It's the same effect caused by "Radar Gun Phobia". Many decent pitchers have a "slow" start, then seem to get into a groove. As they relax and get "long and loose", they can easily develop more speed as the game wears on. Now, after throwing 2+ games in 85 - 90 degree heat, the legs are going to start to wobble, and everything goes down hill from there!

 

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In regards to radar guns. Try using a Bushnell and a Juggs gun together sometime. You will see the Bushnell consistantly 3 to 5 mph slower than the Juggs. I have been able to compare a few times with different Juggs guns and Bushnells the results are the same. The Bushnells and probably other guns are good @ telling if the speed is consistant from different pitches. I agree with fastpitchblue. It is all about spin and verticle movement. The average pitcher is not going to be able to over power most batters starting around 14u. It is about keeping them off balance coupled with accuracy.

 

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In regards to radar guns. Try using a Bushnell and a Juggs gun together sometime. You will see the Bushnell consistantly 3 to 5 mph slower than the Juggs. I have been able to compare a few times with different Juggs guns and Bushnells the results are the same. The Bushnells and probably other guns are good @ telling if the speed is consistant from different pitches. I agree with fastpitchblue. It is all about spin and verticle movement. The average pitcher is not going to be able to over power most batters starting around 14u. It is about keeping them off balance coupled with accuracy.

Been there, done that. I've also compared several Bushnell's to Juggs over the years. My results were very different - nothing like you describe.

This is like comparing a Chevy Cavalier to a BMW 750i. Both will get you from point A to point B. But you're not comparing apples to apples, nor considering the cost/benefit ratio of the tool. I would fully expect a professional or a college team to own a Juggs, but to me, spending that much money on a tool I only used occasionally on my own DD was more than overkill. I stand by the results I got, and while maybe not as consistent as a gun costing over $500 more, it gave me very accurate and honest results. IMO, investing that extra $500+ in other tools - bats, shoes, gloves, etc. was way more productive. But if you MUST have THE best - the Juggs is the one to get.

Thank you rdelawder for breathing some sanity into this. Hmmmm... lots of 60+ at 13u - 14u. Is it possible that even the Juggs guns are having some quality control issues? Maybe the air is just getting thinner... Naaa. It's the SAME OLD STORY... until these girls get to the 16u - 18u "proving grounds". Then the silence sets in.

 

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did you mean to say the bushnell was faster ? MD

 

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I own a newer Bushnell and a Juggs gun ...side by side comparisons on the same pitch consistently showed the Bushnell to be 1 mph slower than the juggs. However there were greater inconsistencies when the batteries started to get weak.

 

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I own a newer Bushnell and a Juggs gun ...side by side comparisons on the same pitch consistently showed the Bushnell to be 1 mph slower than the juggs. However there were greater inconsistencies when the batteries started to get weak.

did they read 60 + when the batteries ran down LOL

 

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coach ... i actually did get a few 84's .. but only with the 10 year olds .lol

 

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we have an older Jugs gun and a newer Bushnell. Side by side for a half our they were the same for 99% of the pitches. I must say the Jugs gun was being used in my left hand and everything is goofy in the left hand so it must have been a bad setup.

 

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^^^Can't be --other people have said so. MD