Pitching and Pitchers Discussion Is this a legal motion?

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How many of you checked out the "related" vidoes? Good God... I was amazed at what some thought was "great pitching". I am not being mean or anything, but some of those girls were horrible. Nice videos but poor techniques.

I am thankfull for central Ohio's pitching coaches. (A tip of the hat to Jimmy Yates as well as others)
 
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If you are looking for correct mechanics in pitching, Monica Abbott is not the first place to look. This was proven when the international umpires were all over her at the Olympics. She is unorthodox in her motion and that is being kind. If your dd is 6'4" and a complete stud that can replicate her motion, God Bless. Outside of that possibility, stick with styles and mechanics that are tried and true.
 
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If you are looking for correct mechanics in pitching, Monica Abbott is not the first place to look. This was proven when the international umpires were all over her at the Olympics. She is unorthodox in her motion and that is being kind. If your dd is 6'4" and a complete stud that can replicate her motion, God Bless. Outside of that possibility, stick with styles and mechanics that are tried and true.
Amen.
I can`t believe she was able to get away with being illegal for as long as she did. Other than that, she is a fine pitcher.
 
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I don't understand this myself. People seem to justify pitchers changing their mechanics indoors, or on a gym floor etc. My daughter is a pitcher (a very good pitcher) and her mechanics don't change whether she is on turf indoors, on a gym floor, or hanging in mid air attached to an airplane wing (the last part was suppose to be funny because I haven't hung her from an airplane wing.....YET). Anyway my point is that if they have bad habbits indoors more than likely they have the same bad habbits outdoors as well.

Honestly! I agree completely. There are pichers that don't get caught when they; crowhop, relpant, don't bring their hands together, don't present both hands, step outside the pitching lane, etc, etc, etc....especially when they are at the 10-12U area. When the pitchers reach the 14-16U+ arena, they are ticked when they start getting called on what they have been doing for 4+ years now. Umpires are doing no service to 10-12u players by not calling illegal pitches that they would call in the upper age ranges, just to get through the repetitive called balls. If a pitcher is pitching illegal indoors I would bet dimes to dollars that she is doing the same thing outdoors. Especially in this case. This is the style of this picher, not something that is singular to indoor pitching. I have seen pitchers that bury a crowhop inside of a puff of infield dust and fool a homeplate umpire and can't understand when they get called on crowhopping by a seasoned base umpire. Here is some real simple advise; don't do it and you won't get called on it! It is easier to fix the problem in the mechanics from the start than to blame the other coach, the wind, the umpire, the walking taco indigestion, the hormones, the dirt, the cleats, whatever! Just pitch within the rules and dominate the other team! No excuses!:)
 
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Honestly! I agree completely. There are pichers that don't get caught when they; crowhop, relpant, don't bring their hands together, don't present both hands, step outside the pitching lane, etc, etc, etc....especially when they are at the 10-12U area. When the pitchers reach the 14-16U+ arena, they are ticked when they start getting called on what they have been doing for 4+ years now. Umpires are doing no service to 10-12u players by not calling illegal pitches that they would call in the upper age ranges, just to get through the repetitive called balls. If a pitcher is pitching illegal indoors I would bet dimes to dollars that she is doing the same thing outdoors. Especially in this case. This is the style of this picher, not something that is singular to indoor pitching. I have seen pitchers that bury a crowhop inside of a puff of infield dust and fool a homeplate umpire and can't understand when they get called on crowhopping by a seasoned base umpire. Here is some real simple advise; don't do it and you won't get called on it! It is easier to fix the problem in the mechanics from the start than to blame the other coach, the wind, the umpire, the walking taco indigestion, the hormones, the dirt, the cleats, whatever! Just pitch within the rules and dominate the other team! No excuses!:)
I couldnt agree more...
Here is an example of a girl disquising a replant. It is slight but still illegal. I see this all the time in Ohio, it is epidemic.I might add it is rarely called. If you watch at exactly :30, 1:10 and 2:30 it is in slow motion for those of you (and umps) who dont see what we are talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkqrft0oShw&feature=related
 
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HOLY SMOKE! while surfing around I found this kid. 4.6 ranked #1 in her large class, 24 test score
Jr, a little unorthodox , maybe slightly a little illegal with her foot work, but honestly what a young beast in the making. how would you like to face this kid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQqlboN6-gU&feature=related

WOW, she is flat out bringing it or she is throwing from about 30-32 feet. I wonder if I point my Jugs gun toward my screen if it will tell me how hard she is throwing??
 
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I couldnt agree more...
Here is an example of a girl disquising a replant. It is slight but still illegal. I see this all the time in Ohio, it is epidemic.I might add it is rarely called. If you watch at exactly :30, 1:10 and 2:30 it is in slow motion for those of you (and umps) who dont see what we are talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkqrft0oShw&feature=related

I'd be interested to know what exactly you think is illegal here.

The pivot foot can legally drag away from the plate. The rules don't say that after dragging away, the pivot can't turn or has to face any certain direction.

That little "twist" you see from the pivot foot is NOT illegal as described in either the ASA or NFHS pitching guidelines. Her pivot foot movement is the EFFECT to her hips turning not the CAUSE of her hips turning.

The pitcher is NOT creating a new starting point (impetus) for the pitch or bringing the pivot foot forward ahead of the stride foot (crow hop) before delivering the pitch.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit for this not to be called because she isn't doing anything illegal.
 
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I'd be interested to know what exactly you think is illegal here.

The pivot foot can legally drag away from the plate. The rules don't say that after dragging away, the pivot can't turn or has to face any certain direction.

That little "twist" you see from the pivot foot is NOT illegal as described in either the ASA or NFHS pitching guidelines. Her pivot foot movement is the EFFECT to her hips turning not the CAUSE of her hips turning.

The pitcher is NOT creating a new starting point (impetus) for the pitch or bringing the pivot foot forward ahead of the stride foot (crow hop) before delivering the pitch.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit for this not to be called because she isn't doing anything illegal.

Seems to me she is doing exactly what you say she is not doing, creating a new starting point for the pitch. :confused: The ball is straight over her head at the time of the replant of her right foot. It's one thing if she drags her foot and ends up there at release, it's quite another if she is still in the windup. Note from 34 seconds to 40 seconds in the slow mo portion. Clearly leaps ahead, replants and throws. Maybe we aren't looking at the same video?

Reminds me of the video OHSAA used last year in the pitching emphasis series, it's that blatent to my eyes.
 
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I couldnt agree more...
Here is an example of a girl disquising a replant. It is slight but still illegal. I see this all the time in Ohio, it is epidemic.I might add it is rarely called. If you watch at exactly :30, 1:10 and 2:30 it is in slow motion for those of you (and umps) who dont see what we are talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkqrft0oShw&feature=related

Big time replant!!!! Why would anyone put this on youtube, lol and show a slow motion side view to boot?
 
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I'd be interested to know what exactly you think is illegal here.

The pivot foot can legally drag away from the plate. The rules don't say that after dragging away, the pivot can't turn or has to face any certain direction.

That little "twist" you see from the pivot foot is NOT illegal as described in either the ASA or NFHS pitching guidelines. Her pivot foot movement is the EFFECT to her hips turning not the CAUSE of her hips turning.

The pitcher is NOT creating a new starting point (impetus) for the pitch or bringing the pivot foot forward ahead of the stride foot (crow hop) before delivering the pitch.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit for this not to be called because she isn't doing anything illegal.

She's not dragging her pivot foot. In order to drag her foot it would have to remain in contact with the ground throughout her pitching motion. She's pushing off of the plate, her foot is going airbourne, she's replanting it to create a NEW starting point. Totally illegal.
 
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HOLY SMOKE! while surfing around I found this kid. 4.6 ranked #1 in her large class, 24 test score
Jr, a little unorthodox , maybe slightly a little illegal with her foot work, but honestly what a young beast in the making. how would you like to face this kid?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQqlboN6-gU&feature=related

I think Bretman was looking at this video and just quoted the wrong post. This girl can bring it, i find it funny the girls that make college videos that 12u girls throw faster then them.. This girl also looks toward third as she pitches, very strange
 
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I metronomed this kid from the glove slap to catcher's mitt. A true 63mph - 65mph riseball assuming 40 feet. Wicked to say the least! Low 40's on her change - without changing her motion! She has some great skills.
 
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I metronomed this kid from the glove slap to catcher's mitt. A true 63mph - 65mph riseball assuming 40 feet. Wicked to say the least! Low 40's on her change - without changing her motion! She has some great skills.

Yeah she can definately bring it. The only thing that I found odd was that every pitch she threw, whether inside or out she stepped way right of the powerline.
 
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wow Bretman spoken like a true umpire. she is crow hopping, look at 30 to 40 sec again at 115 to 122 sec and again at 151 to 157 sec. If she was dragging het foot the foot would be turned over, on the top of her toes. She by landing on the balls of her feet, cleats down, is a crow hop. yes it is a small crow hop, i mean she is not getting major air here but it still is a crow hop

here is a legal drag, note the cleats are up off the ground, top of toes drag...

http://www.dartfish.tv/WebPresenter/Player.aspx?CR=p2655c1342m9777
 
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I'd be interested to know what exactly you think is illegal here.

The pivot foot can legally drag away from the plate. The rules don't say that after dragging away, the pivot can't turn or has to face any certain direction.

That little "twist" you see from the pivot foot is NOT illegal as described in either the ASA or NFHS pitching guidelines. Her pivot foot movement is the EFFECT to her hips turning not the CAUSE of her hips turning.

The pitcher is NOT creating a new starting point (impetus) for the pitch or bringing the pivot foot forward ahead of the stride foot (crow hop) before delivering the pitch.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit for this not to be called because she isn't doing anything illegal.

Wow Bretman, I'm really surprised on your opinion of this pitcher. Lets get off the crow hop definition for a minute because that is technically not what she is doing. What makes the pitches illegal is leaping. The pitcher cannot have both feet off the ground at the same time. If you look at the slow motion that is exactly what she is doing. In real time you can tell she is doing it by the pivot foot bouncing a foot in front of the rubber. Check out this video, it is an exact copy of what this pitcher is doing and explains why it is an illegal pitch.http://www.dartfish.tv/WebPresenter/Player.aspx?CR=p2655c1342m9778
 
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here is a legal drag, note the cleats are up off the ground, top of toes drag...

http://www.dartfish.tv/WebPresenter/Player.aspx?CR=p2655c1342m9777

There is no rule regarding what part or portion of the foot has to keep contact with the ground. It can be the toe, the side of the foot or even the bottom of the foot.

http://www.dartfish.tv/WebPresenter/Player.aspx?CR=p2655c1342m9787

According to this video if they seperate the hands while on the rubber then they can jump or leap or crow hop as they had started while on the rubber. or did i hear her wrong...

I think you heard wrong.

The narration on the video doesn't say any of those things are legal. It's saying that IF the pivot foot comes forward of the pitching plate before the pitch is started (ie: before hands are separated) it is illegal, no matter how the foot got there (by a jump, leap, hop, step, push, etc.)
 
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